Arcadia Discussion Zone

Make of this what you will. http://www.benhammott.com/sauniere-spellbook.html

Filip Coppens mentioned this book to Isaac some three years ago, and said it was found in the attic of the Villa Bethania. Coppens then asked Isaac to take part in the Bloodline film and comment on the book in relation to the cult of the dead. He refused, as he felt there was no link to Sauniere and this book; in short, there is no evidence to prove it was Sauniere's at all.

extremely spurrious IMO. Why does there always have to be a profit made out of it? Ben H seems to be milking it these days. To me this casts doubts on authenticity

I'd be more skeptical over the fact that Coppens was shopping it around, given Douzet's reputation for creative forgeries. Somehow the Gothic St. Michael print doesn't seem to fit very well with the Arabic text.

TCP

"Sancte Michael"....FAIL

Oh, so you're saying "Sancte Michael" isn't Saint Michael? Gosh, with the wings and the spear and the dragon, I must've assumed so. Silly me.

So why don't you tell us who/what it REALLY is, Sheila? I'm sure I'm not the only one who's curious.

TCP

No darlink, in an 800 year old Arabe spell book ( for starters) they would not have printed a page with Sancte Michael spelled like that...far from it...the book is a FAKE.

FAIL as in spelling, personage and context... it's a HOAX

and just in case you still don't understand me Tim, and since i am not allowed to pull the "Scottish" card anymore...read my lips...the comment wasn't directed at you it was directed at Ye Olde Arabe Spelle Booke..okay ?

Btw...(and no Tim it's not directed at you)......why are con men not called "con men" anymore...is it not politically correct or what ?

Oh. So we agree then.

TCP

OK, OK, I got it. Awfully sorry. Why aren't you allowed to "pull the Scottish card anymore"...?



Beats me...

TCP

From the same villa that gave the world the Sot Pecheur.....

And it was Henri Buthion who found both.....

It is no fake! I was the one who made the contact with Ben and the owner of the original-I saw it at first and told Ben about it. The story is exactly how ben is telling on his website. The Angel was put by someone (Sauniere) between the pages-it is not a part of the original book. I read the translation as well but will be interested if someone will have another one.
The source of the book is absolutely reliable. Interesting for us was that the book was written in red ink as well and some signs seem to be similar to some at the messages ben found...

I think people have just lost confidence...

Yes, it's amazing how fresh and vibrant that red ink has remained all these centuries....

Has anyone laid this next to the Picatrix to do a proper comparison yet?

TCP

Because Andrew said so. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3671

I, for one am quite happy to have everyone believe it - makes life simpler and I won't be at risk of High Blood Pressure.
And if we are really lucky we'll avoid having all the threads that purport to defend the bloody thing opened up and attract drunken, druggies screaming for the veracity of dust particles settling in XY direction.

designed by Genii for use by Edjets.

I believe the "Picatrix" is a misnomer in and of itself.

They've kept to type - suggested it was actually copied by Sauniere and that he even went to the extent of creating the book's binding in a very ancient tradition of stringing through holes and tying off.
And to top all off - we're really, really, really lucky because someone made a photographic replica and I think? - that is what people are being presented with. Meaning there is no original because "someone" stole it so some non-muslim couldn't use it. BECAUSE WE'RE ALL UNWORTHY.

Apparantly we may be able to gain insight into his personality through this photographic copy of a copy and we'll be able to do up a completed psychological profile or even better control Asmodeus(I think he's still phissed about his staff being stolen - if I was a statue that's my first priority is to seek vengenace against those that vandalised me)
Phew, I was worried there for a second. We're lucky - we're saved now.

And, I just wish also to say something because I'm a bit slow and the more obvious assumptions, I assume I should be making, I'm not.

Let me see if I've got this right.
It's supposed to be a Tiwas(prayer book) copied by Sauniere - used by Sauniere based on What?

Is there an original script oops maybe a medieval arabic book - probably the original Necromonicon this was supposed to based on that Sauniere copied then he supposedly hid it and Henri Buthion/Graham Simmans found it behind a skirting board then Graham S. sent to a friend in Cairo blah, blah, blah technical report with no references. Director of the Cairo Islamic museum in Egypt. Who was he when he was at home?
Turns out the Tiwas may have originated from the time of the Crusades - and related to the Muslim faith - (that would be Islam) written in Medieval Arabic.

BUT G.S. asked for the book to be sent back from Cairo and Shock of all shocks - the book is gone. It's gone people. totally and unequivocally disappeared off the face of this green earth never to be seen again. I can almost feel G.S's pain but wait there's more he saved a photographic replica.
What you ask is a photographic replica - is the cousin of the photograph - the father - the daddy of all photographs - a replica of a photograph - well I can't answer that question because I simply don't know.

But I'm not panicking and you know why - it's because Ben has the only copy - all 78 pages and I can buy it as printed publication and an ebook or I can buy a limited edition A4 copy.

With a summery(sic) of the reports on the spell book by the Director of the Cairo Islamic Museum in Egypt and REV. Dr Albert Isteero, Egypt.

From "Crow" we also have the testimony that Coppens was shopping it around 3 years ago.
I didn't know Coppens was behind recruitment for the "bloodline" film.
Also it means Coppens knew about the "Cult of the dead" and specifically tried to put in the 'bloodline' film - did Brucey know about this?

So let's get this straight now, we have a photographic replica text that Coppens knew about that came from "graham simmans" / Henri Buthion villa Bethania attic/second floor skirting board now in the hands of "ben" who has the only copy until it is sold.
Coppens then wanted a commentary from IBJ about the book. Why? And why did Coppens want it to be presented as part of the "cult of the dead" theory and bloodline movie.

Okay - it's not Roscoe that's nuts about conspiracy theories - it's me. This is some weird herbage.

Is it similar to "The Necronomicon" being translated "names of the dead" as it is also a book

of incantations? The original of the RLC book of spells was deemed to be dangerous by the Muslim

appraisers who kept it for religious reasons. Like the Sot Pecheur and Ben`s notes, it is written in

red ink in some places. Sauniere belonged to the Lodge of Memphis Mizraim which was the lodge of

the Egyptologists. Egyptology would have included esoteric Arabic books.

NECRONOMICON INCANTATIONS REFERENCES

"Original title Al Azif - azif being the word used by the Arabs to designate that nocturnal sound (made by insects) supposed to be the howling of daemons.
Composed by Abdul Alhazred, a mad poet of Sanaá, in Yemen, who is said to have flourished during the period of the Ommiade caliphs, circa 700 A. D. He visited the ruins of Babylon & the subterranean secret of Memphis & spent ten years alone in the great southern desert of Arabia - the Roba El Khaliyeh or "Empty Space" of the ancients - & "Dahna" or "Crimson" desert of the modern Arabs, which is held to be inhabited by protective evil spirits & monsters of death. Of this desert many strange & unbelievable marvels are told by those who pretend to have penetrated it. In his last years Alhazred dwelt in Damascus, where the Necronomicon (Al Azif) was written, & of his final death or disappearance (738 A. D.) Many terrible & conflicting things are told. He is said by Ebn Khallikan (12th cent. biographer) to have been seized by an invisible monster in broad daylight & devoured horribly before a large number of fright-frozen witnesses. Of his madness many things are told. He claimed to have been the fabulous Irem, or City of Pillars, & to have found beneath the ruins of a certain nameless desert town the shocking annals & secrets of a race older than mankind. He was only an indifferent Moslem, worshipping unknown entities whom he called Yog-Sothoth & Cthulhu.

In A. D. 950 the Azif, which had gained a considerable tho' surreptitious circulation among the philosophers of the age, was secretly translated into Greek by Theodorus Philetas of Constantinople under the title Necronomicon. For a century it impelled certain experimenters to terrible attempts, when it was suppressed and burnt by the patriarch Michael. After this it is only heard of furtively, but (1228) Olaus Wormius made a Latin translation later in the Middle Ages, & the Latin text was printed twice - one in the 15th century in black-letter (evidently in Germany) & once in the 17th - (prob. Spanish) both editions being without identifying marks, & located as to time & place by internal typographical evidence only. The work (both Latin & Gk.) was banned by Pope Gregory IX in 1232, shortly after its Latin translation, which called attention to it. The Arabic original was lost as early as Wormius' time as indicated by his prefatory note & no sight of the Greek copy (which was printed in Italy bet. 1500 & 1550) has been reported since the burning of a certain Salem man's library in 1692. A translation made by Dr. Dee was never printed, & exists only in fragments recovered from the original MS. Of the Latin texts now existing one (15th cent.) is known to be in the British Museum under lock & key, while another (17th cent.) is in the Bibliotheque Nationale at Paris. A 17th cent. edition is in the Widener Library at Harvard, & in the library of Miskatonic University at Arkham. Also in the library of the Univ. of Buenos Ayres. Numerous other copies probably exist in secret, & a 15th century one is persistently rumoured to form part of the collection of a celebrated American millionaire. A still vaguer rumour credits the preservation of a 16th cent. Greek text in the Salem family of Pickman; but if it was so preserved, it vanished with the artist R. U. Pickman, who disappeared early in 1926. The book is rapidly suppressed by the authorities of most countries, & by all the branches of organized ecclesiasticism. Reading leads to terrible consequences. It was from rumours of this book (of which relatively few of the general public know) that R. W. Chambers is said to have derived the idea of his early novel "The King in Yellow".

H. P. Lovecraft

I wouldn`t expect a Hebrew scholar like Isaac to have anything to do with an Arabic book of spells. As for Filip, his work is fascinating and informative.

Unless Sauniere was fluent in Arabic, I fail to see what use this copy would have been to him, nor why he would have gone to such great lengths to make it look like it was centuries-old. Seems a bit over the top if you ask me.



But Bloodline was made more than three years ago. It was released in '08, and wasn't it actually filmed some years before that? As I recall the release was delayed by something like two years, if not more.

TCP

Would it? I always thought of Egyptology as dealing with ancient, pre-Islamic Egypt.

TCP

Let's help them make something up like - I don't know it's somehow some phonetic rendering produced in code.
A bit over the top - but you've got to remember Sauniere wanted to keep it authentic so he also replicated the ancient book binding technique as well.
A man of many, many, many talents.





Glad you said it - I did look it up but I didn't know when it was filmed so I didn't say anything.

I do have one question and that is for all of Coppens meanderings - what did have to do with "Bloodline" really. Why invoke his name into this.

Memphis Mizraim was a mixed bag - archaeology and Theosophy -

and don`t forget A.C.

Well lucky me, I just came across my copy of the 'The Dark History of the NECRONOMICON' by "SIMON" -

Let me just quote something from the aforementioned book - p.109.

I guess none of this should come as a shock to anyone - it's basically a no-brainer at this stage but this Graham Simman's guy is:-