Arcadia Discussion Zone

exactly my dear Watson.

Thursday November 9th 1899, letter from Charles Denarnaud (the blacksmith) says Nous dit d'aller prendre les pommes which translates as “we are told to go to the apples”

Ch. Dénarnaud from Alet says to Saunière and co. that they can come and take the apples...

what apples i wonder?

so all those 400f installments/payments to the Denarnauds i mentioned were not to Marie and co but to the Blacksmith from Alet

they go on for years from 1903 i think!....thats a lot of iron work

http://www.octonovo.org/RlC/Fr/carnets/ ... ta1906.htm

What was the Blacksmithing for?

could the pommes be grapes instead of apples? or even potatoes?

I didn`t look into this, but wasn`t Saunieres original sunburst calvaire made of wrought iron ?

I just remembered maybe it was the glass house or various day to day things, I think we're discussed this before but I'm not sure it would come up in a search. Various things such as tools, sharpening axes, etc.

You're a genius Crimson Ghost. You've just reminded me of something.



They taste bitter and salty!

Le Serpent Rouge;-


*I'm not suggesting the apples in the Octo/Sauniere books are referring to Le Serpent rouge or the parchments because Paul Éluard was only born in 1895 and had not written his poem at that time.
I am suggesting though that they're written with access to the same information on the poem - both Le Serpent Rouge and the Parchments.

The 19th November date would suggest they were apples, I'd say; the right sort of time of year for them to have been harvested, and put away, and for there to have been a surplus to give, sell or barter to a friend in RLC. I don't know if they had apple trees around RLC, but I know they had cherries, so maybe apples were more of an Alet thing, and they had an orchard there, back then.

I know genius works in mysterious ways C.G. but Why potatoes?

I think I get it - "Pommes frites".

Oh sugar, you really are a genius - La terre est bleue...

Pomme is the French word for apple.

Pomme is the Fench word for potatoes, so in French Pommes means potatoes. The term Pom or Pommies is an Australian term for the British, thought to come from Prisoner of [Her] Majesty, as most convicts sent to Australia were.

Both answers are right! Yes Pomme is French for Apple, and Pomme de Terre ('apples of the ground') is French for potatoes. However the French often abbreviate to just Pomme, mainly when adding another word, like Pomme Frites, which is fried potatoes, or in fact...French Fries!


Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_pommes#ixzz1h3sNtADV

correct Richard...that is the time to collect and store your apples, but it's also the time to take them to the apple press or to take your apple liquid to the travelling Alembics that toured round the regions and parked up to do the distilling like they still do now to turn your juice into eaux-de-vie...huge copper Alambics juddering and rumbling away with a lean-to shelter made of hastily flung up tarpaulins, lots of steam and apple pulp flowing and groups of ruddy cheeked gnarled old locals huddling round and drinking suspicious looking liquid....they're the chaps i like to talk with.

....as for the rest of the posts...you are all very confused and just muddying the waters.

I was answering a question Tingra posed awhile ago about the 12th sentence of le serpent rogue referring to the parchments. (Which includes the reference to - POMMES)
It's called Multi-tasking.

This is the first mention of Charles Dénarnaud i can find when the forgeron from Alet puts in place the large metal doors that close off the cemetery,




....amongst other jobs, he installs 6 collection boxes complete with locks in the church which gave the abbé a guaranteed annual income of 1200 francs from all the pennyless parishoners !








Dénarnaud's next job was to put in place all the anchorages for the chemin de croix...and then he erected the grills of the baptismal fonts...this bill was for 147 francs and included the work he'd done way back in February fixing up the piggy-banks. This bill was finally paid, six years later... in 1903....either he didn't need the money or ?

In 1894 Saunière had Charles Dénarnaud - the farrier at Alet, make the double doors for the cemetery (which weighed in at 214 kilos) and had him put up the railings for the garden, the metal gates, the locks, the iron trellis work for the garden of the Vierge etc.
The total for all this work came to just over 937 francs...a rather large sum for the time. Saunière arranged a private contract with the farrier to pay off the bill over 5 years...@ 200francs per year.
He arranged this contract at the end of August 1895 with the first payment not being due until July 1896.

Sounds like Sauniere got a good bargain there, not having to pay anything at all for the first twelve months, not even the cost of materials. I don't think you'd get such a good deal from a metalworker today, given the rocketing cost of metal. But I guess for the farrier at the time he benefitted in the sense of earning a bit of interest (63 francs) on the deferred payments, and having a guaranteed annual income from the priest of 200 francs per year, for the next five years.

But because the items listed as examples are different, and the date of the last payment doesn't accord, I'm now confused as to whether the schedule of works specified in the quote above, also included those in the one below, quoted earlier in the day, and whether we're talking about two packages of work, or one?

He bought blasting powder and fuses
.....and property, land and fields



He spent a small fortune every month at the butchers,(over 600 frs a year) the boulanger (same amount)...he bought in a huge supply of geese, chickens, ducks, the feed for the livestock, eggs, bread, pigs, potatoes, oil, rhum, wine, old expensive wines every month....apart from the Dénarnaud family and the workers....how many people was this man feeding....!

two different jobs Richard...i placed up two different versions of the job descriptions, because one said he fitted the cemetery gates and the other said he made and fitted them.

Thank you, that makes more sense now. Can I please ask where the itemised list of his expenditure is coming from?

One can only wonder what earthly reason he had for purchasing fuses and blasting powder! I can't think of any legitimate construction purpose for that which would accord with the sort of building works he commissioned.



Interesting name. Real person or pseudonym (as later used as such by the PdS), I wonder?

the details are from the Carnets de comptabilité.
http://www.octonovo.org/RlC/Fr/carnets/ ... ta1908.htm

Many thanks. Had the right website, but wasn't "navigating" it right.

I'll enjoy looking through that very much. I think you can get quite an interesting picture of someone through their grocery bills, and other purchases.

absolutely...and i'm sure Tina would agree too....this is better than any diary.

It's excellent. I've only been through them superficially but it really does paint a picture.

I see what you mean about not getting one's Denarnauds muddled up, but with regard to Charles, the metalworker in Alet, and I know the records aren't complete, etc., but the pattern of payments seems quite odd; and late, given the earlier detail you posted.

It's probably not important, just interesting, but on my quick skim I see that when the man is specifically identified as such - as M. Ch. Denarnaud d'Alet - I can see seven payments, totalling 2,400F - 200 in July 1901, 200 in December 1904, and then 400F in July 1907, April 1908, and January, May and October 1909. Then, in addition to this, there is another 600F to the "forgeron d'Alet (I presume the same person) - 200 in July 1907, and 400 in September the same year. There's also another 400F for a Monsieur Denarnaud, first name unspecified, in May 1910. Plus lots of other payments to other Denarnauds.

I don't really have anywhere to go with that, but still ... interesting stuff!

oh i certainly do ....just wish i had more time but silly season is upon us

these are just a few payments from those accounts to Denarnaud the blacksmith its not a complete list but you get the idea, they are all regular amounts though.
Augustus obviously helped him with his book keeping/cash flow.

In May/June 1906 he Marie gave Denarnaud 400f
In July/August 1906 Augustus gave Denarnaud 400f
In September/October 1906 Augustus gave Denarnaud 400f
19th April 1907 Augustus gave Denarnaud 400f
July 1907 gave Ch Denarnaud 400f
April 1908 gave Mr Denarnaud of Alet 400f
January 1909 gave Denarnaud Alet 400f
May 1909 gave Denarnaud Alet 400f
September 1909 Augustine gave Den 400f
October 1909 gave Denarnaud Alet 400f
May 1910 gave Mr Denarnaud 400f