Arcadia Discussion Zone

Some FACTS about Marie Denarnaud and Saunière.

The Church insisted that priests could only employ women who had "passed the canonical age" i.e. post menopausal.

Alexandrine Denarnaud (Marie's mother) was thus Saunière's official housekeeper. Marie helped her mother.

Hence the dummies representing Saunière and Marie Denarnaud's mother currently in the museum.

It is now uncontested that Saunière made at least one visit to Fritz Dörge Bank in Budapest and other mysterious destinations. With this he handed Marie a pre-written letter to send to any correspondence he recieved whilst away. It said (translated):

"My Dear Brother (Monseigneur). Thank you for your letter. I have unfortunately been urgently called to the bedside of a sick colleague I will reply at greater length as soon as I return. Signed Bérenger Saunière priest"

All of these pre-written letters were undated, Marie added the date and sent them on.

1899 was the year Marie Denarnaud became a very wealthy landowner. All deeds were made in her name. Saunière was supplying the money. The main reason he did this is because the Church and the State were at loggerheads during this period and the State could easily confiscate the deeds if they were under the ownership of a Catholic priest.

Saunière instructed Marie to destroy papers before she died. Which she was seen by one villager to be doing. She also burned useless Russian loan certificates.

Saunière was officially poor, he never gave his mother an allowance. His brother-in-law was upset by this and took him to court in Couiza. Marie replied in a letter which Saunière dictated. It says:

"Since the separation of Church and State, M le curé is no longer in receipt of any salary and his response to the demands of the petitioner is, therefore, that his resources do not permit him to provide the three francs per diem".

Both Marie and Saunière made wills and nothing was left to any of their respective families. It says:
"I give to Marie Denarnaud all these goods without any prior inventory being made and of which goods I desire absolutely that no inventory shall be made by my residuary legatee"

and in Marie's

"It is my express wish that no inventory shall be made at my death"


Marie Denarnaud at age thirty , a picture that everyone here has seen before.
Take a look again only this time look at the dress and the jewelry.
This is not a mere house maid. She had money.

There are many letters in existence that Saunière wrote to Marie Denarnaud whilst he was away at places like the monastery at Prouilhe as a punishment after the Ecclesiastical Tribunal in October 1910. He called her Ma petite Marinette or Ma bonne Marie . She met him off the train in Limoux where he invited her to go shopping for the clothes necessary for the pair of them to journey together to Espiens (over one hundred miles from Carcassonne) and Toulouse. Espiens is a tiny village

The Samaritaine stores in Paris sent Marie dresses, corsages, hats, gloves, capes, jewelry and household linen worth a total of 770.50 francs (about 12000 euros). Saunière ordered 220 litres of Banjuls fortified wine and 1500 litres of wine (mirabelle, kirsch, Benedictine) and a hundred bottles of Peppermint. Saunière also smoked Havana cigars.

Some Maid.

She found him unconscious on 17th January 1917 Saunière at this time had been in bad health for some time (no doubt due to his excesses). He had been blind in one eye for some time. He was running up debts. It does seem that Saunière's income tailed off at the start of WWI, no doubt his main source of income was now behind enemy lines.

He died on 21st January and they call it the "doleful date for the heart of a royalist priest" to fail , the same date King Louis XVI was guillotined 124 years previously.

Marie ordered the coffin from Bousgarbiés in Couiza where his grandson still runs the business today. The coffin cost 160 francs. Marie paid for it on 12th June 1917, the mistake in HBHG has now been corrected.

Saunière did receive the last rites but only at his funeral which was presided over by three priests.

Marie visited his grave every day, AT NIGHT!

In 1933 Marie wrote to a friend:

"As you can guess, all summer long I've had people wanting to buy the place (Villa Bethania) , but I just can't bring myself to do it. At the last moment, I always back off. Everything is too full of memories of our dear departed. I just can't bear to give it all up and keep putting off a decision"

Claire Corbu said that Marie had said more than once to the villages "You're walking on gold without knowing it"

She also said to a number of children after a Sunday school reading:

"My poor children, if only you knew" This testimony comes from one of the children present and still living in Rennes le Chateau.

On 24th January 1953 she suffered a cerebral attack which left her paralysed. She died on 29th January.

She was buried with Saunière but they moved him in 2004 to unconsecrated ground and kept her in the cemetery. He has departed her again.

This information was from Jean Luc Robin, a former resident of Rennes le Chateau and who interviewed the villagers who knew Marie Denarnaud.

Guillaume Dénarnaud was the Président des Marguilliers.

According to a footnote on page 24 of their book, there is some sort of record of this:

Some Feast of Wagy shenanigans, perhaps. That link just went dead, for some reason, but when I looked at it earlier, the entry read: "Arrive ce soir. ??tte". I get the "happens tonight" part, but why "head" for "tte"? Do you mean as an abbreviation for "tete"? Might it be an acronym for something, perhaps, if the writer was trying to be discreet?

it says...ROUANET curé de Villefort Arrive ce soir de ??tte .... Arrives this evening, not Happens this evening.

the ?? means the handwriting is illegible

Thank you, yes the cure arriving for the evening makes more sense, and I guessed the "??" annotation was by the translator; just wondered what the "tte" might mean, but thinking further on that, it being the end of a word, the beginning part of which was illegible, is more likely than it being an acronym for something, as I'd previously supposed.

Isn't that great...nothing ever changes does it. You order a load of expensive statues and you go through all the details with the manufacturer, look at the sketches, approve this and that....and what happens, they don't arrive. The boss pleads more time to get the work finished...and still nothing....time drags.

So, you rattle off a terse letter telling matey-boy to pull the finger out or he can keep the blessed statues.
...and Hey presto ! next day the statue manufacturer says they are finished and on their way and the day after there they are waiting at Couiza train station.

It worked then...and it works now

Hmm...no, dont think so...it says the curé arrives this evening FROM a person or place called **tte



so i've got my thinking cap on...

Thanks for correcting the translation Sheila, So he was treasurer of the Church wardens in 1900 and climbed the ladder to president by 1906. he must have been a very prominent village member.



I chuckled at that when I read it yesterday as well
aren’t those books addictive? Or is it just me? i am on my lunch hour and still scrutinising them ....sad or what

"les choses que l'on veut te reprocher ne sont pas du ressort du tribunal ecclésiastique, attendu qu'aucune action civile ne t'est intentée pour escroquerie ou vol... mais le cas qui nous occupe n'est pas celui là. Tu as eu de l'argent, il n'appartient à personne de percer le secret que tu gardes, tu l'as dépensé comme il t'a plu, cela ne regarde que toi."

Rouanet wrote this to his friend Saunière in July 1910 the year before he himself died.

Thanks Richard, but i meant was there any evidence surrounding the adoption of the child or verification of the mother

Do you have any written evidence for this?

so just local gossip

Yes, I saw it.

TCP

Sheila, this translates as “please forward gun” Prière d'expédier canon
What does it really say?
And what does this say from a committee in Lyon? Me dit de ne pas bouger pour la 2e fois, I translated it as “Told me not to move for the second time”

Now we know that Guillaume Denarnaud was the treasurer then president of the church wardens all those instructions to and from him make sense, little things like letters telling him to get to Rennes to measure the windows etc. The position of church warden was important, you were elected into position and would have to be a high standing member of the church community, the whole family was involved in the church in one way or another, even before Berenger Sauniere arrived on the scene because the previous priest lived with them also. It will be interesting to see what the researcher that Sandy mentioned has turned up on this family

I don't know about the visit, but with regard to that particular bank, when Jean Luc Robin was researching Sauniere's archive he found some pre-paid envelopes addressed to the Fritze Dorge Bank in Budapest. He includes a photo of one of them on p.68 of his book. Which is very good, btw, with some beautiful pictures.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rennes---Ch%C3% ... 087&sr=8-2

"Prière d'expédier canon"....means get it in the post tootifuckinsweet..."canon" as in Russell the rotund stargazer

Me dit de ne pas bouger pour la 2e fois,...i would need to see that in context to translate it correctly.

Thursday 24th August 1899
http://www.octonovo.org/RlC/Fr/docu/cor ... ce1899.htm



That’s hilarious

hmm...interesting....




the Comité de Lyon told me not to move/budge for the second time...which means they've already written to say that before.

Reading the amount of mail and telegrams that needed to be opened, read and replied to on a daily basis... not mentioning the hiring of workers, artisans, train arrivals, transport of goods to and from the whole of France...our priest needed a secretary more than anything else...and it must have been Marie....and if Marie handled all this, she certainly didn't have time to clean the house or the church now did she.

...hmm...or is it the other way around...who was the secretary and cleaner for the Priest before Saunière...it was Alexandrine wasn't it.

when you read the "job description" for the church warden and the responsibilities the person held i am surprised there are not more letters with Guillaume Denarnauds name on

co-operation with the priest in charge (or, in cases of vacancy, the bishop), Churchwardens are generally responsible for the day-to-day functioning of the parish. These responsibilities include various aspects of administration, plant operations, and personnel. Their work is not just the maintenance of the church building, but helping the smooth running of the church. In this capacity, wardens are considered the leading lay member of the congregation, and, during the incumbency of a priest, may have varying duties and responsibilities according to the customs of the parish, the canons of the diocese to which the parish belongs, the desires of the priest, and the direction of the parish board and/or the congregation as a whole.



Order and Maintenance

Many of the Churchwarden's responsibilities are connected with building maintenance, such as temperature control, roof repair, seating, lighting, etc. If the parish has a Sexton, the wardens would normally consult and coordinate with him or her on these matters. Churchwardens are also responsible for carrying out (or at least organizing) an annual inspection of the church building. They hold a key to the church and are entitled to access at any time. The grounds of the church also come under the purview of the Churchwardens, and depending on the size and location of the church, the grounds may include a cemetary, gardens, driveway and/or parking lot. For churches in cold climates, winter weather may necessitate the negotiation of a snow-plough removal service or walkway clearing, which the Churchwardens will also have to arrange.

There are also responsibilities in connection with the Sunday services and for keeping order in the church. Churchwardens have a duty to make sure that the clergy can conduct their services and other meetings without hindrance. This requires that any visitors or newcomers are welcomed and assisted, that there is adequate seating, proper lighting and heating, and that all other facilities required are in place, including safety requirements. Churchwardens should be on hand to welcome guest preachers, the Archdeacon or Bishop when they visit, and offer any help as needed. On the rare occasion of a major disturbance within (or immediately outside) the church, the Churchwardens take primary responsibility in dealing with the matter and have the power to arrest anyone or escort them off the premises if necessary.



Reports, Meetings & Money

Churchwardens are required to respond to ‘official’ questions about the parish, and have to make various reports each year to the annual parochial meeting and to the Archdeacon. They may be trustees of some charitable trust connected with the church and are required to keep detailed records of all property, professional inspections, alterations and repairs. They are expected to attend all the meetings of the parish council and the standing committees, and should meet and pray regularly with the parish priest.



In some parishes, the Churchwardens are responsible for counting the Collection and recording the amount in the service Register, and determining (along with the parish council and Rector) how funds are to be allocated. In other, larger parishes, collection duties may be divided amongst a Sidesteam, Envelope Secretary and Treasurer.



Lay Support

In many parishes, Churchwardens have the authority to officiate at Morning and Evening Prayer if a priest or licensed lay person is unavailable. The only areas in which wardens almost always have no authority, often proscribed by canon, is music and liturgy, which is considered to be under the exclusive authority of the priest or bishop in charge of the parish. As members of other parish committees and groups, Churchwardens are often able to offer advice and assistance. Each warden will have her or his own particular areas of knowledge and interests; between them they should not only fulfill their formal duties but also deal with unexpected problems and add to the general well-being of the parish.



Interregnums

During an Interregnum (the time between the departure of the current rector and the arrival of a new incumbent), Churchwardens will share the overall responsibility for the church and its worship activities with the Regional or Rural Dean. They will arrange for guest preachers to take the Sunday services (and any other events) and handle their expenses. The two Churchwardens together are usually responsible for announcing the final selection and arrival of a new incumbent to the parish, by reading aloud the Bishop’s official letter of appointment during the Sunday service.

yep, quite a little family affair wasnt it