Arcadia Discussion Zone

I've looked at many explanations for the staffs on the Poussin Shepherds of Arcadia. I've noticed a few things which may or may not have been spotted before that I think are interesting.
I wondered if anyone ever considered that the staffs are doing nothing more than pointing at something so I investigated the possibility.
The only things they point to really are two trees per se:-

One points to a tree with a thickish branch and the other to the foliage of another tree. What would the object of this exercise be? Well perhaps it is indicating that there is a certain tree which is an hybrid of two other trees. It is strange that inbetween the two trees mentioned there is another tree in the middle which is slightly yellow. But you will notice that the middle tree sits in sort of a vase made up of the shepherds garment and then the garment pours away from the tree as if something is flowing into the shepherd. Is Poussin interpreting the tree of life I wonder?

I remember reading about certain trees where you can graft one type of apple on to another or one type of rose onto another. It was while I was researching grafting that I came across the Glastonbury thorn. The Glastonbury thorn is a hybrid of two types of Hawthorn which produces a flowering tree that flowers in both December and March. It was created by grafting one species of Hawthorn onto the root stock of another species. I won't explain the legend of Joseph of Arimathea and Glastonbury because you already know about it.
Here are 4 pictures of various Glastonbury thorns.

I noticed something odd about this tree, it will not grow straight. It always seems to grow at an angle similar to the staffs on the Poussin painting. Apparantly, this is because it becomes top heavy because as a species, nature didn't intend it to exist.
So perhaps on the Poussin, the artist is telling us that the tree of life is a hybrid of two different trees perhaps from different regions but of the same species. I was reading about the blue apples last night in a long thread which took me all night to read. I wondered if there was a Hawthorn tree that has blue apples? I came across one called Crataegus bracyacanntha which has a common name - pomme bluei, native to America.
Maybe this mystery or part of this mystery is mixed up in the occult in some way which is what I was reading last night on here?
I hoped you liked this alternative viewpoint, it was enjoyable to research the thorn tree.
By the way, the hawthorne is a member of the rose family so I suppose that would tie in nicely.

No comments? I thought it might at least prompt an idea for a book. LMAO

Dave.....maybe, just maybe......the "trolls" as you recently so kindly alluded to on this website are not enamoured with what may be referred to as your flights of ideas.
One of the traits of maturity is to learn from one's experiences.
Incidentally, "LMAO" can mean "Lick Me All Over"......is that what you're on about Dave?

...and I thought this little bit of research concerning the hawthorne was fruitfull.
Thats the trouble with you lot - you can't see the wood for the trees.

Except it's not a Hawthorn...

This painting is the most truly amazing painting i've ever come across. It holds many, many secrets. This alternative viewpoint was just my first examination into the staffs and what they mean. I'm beginning to get the general idea of what the artist is saying but i'm also very confused by other aspects of it which have led me to reading quite a lot about it.
I'm more than convinced about the tree's by the way but it goes deeper than I first thought.
The theme of this Poussin painting is many things but the one that stands out more than the rest is 'the miracles of Jesus'.
I believe we have a Leper, a blind man, a man raised from the dead and a Woman who was cured of something. It seems to me that Poussin is trying to show us how Jesus cured these people.
Everytime I examine the painting I see something else, one thing leads you to another but you can't get there without seeing things in an order. It's like a maze that tells a story as you travel through it but you have to go the right way or otherwise you end up with information that doesn't make sense.
The tree for example in the middle, sat in it's little urn which then poors into the middle staff is the story of J of A and then you see the bishops of Glastonbury.
It's very interesting to compare the first and second Poussins and how the painter follows his own trends in both respective paintings. It gives you a kind of map to follow each clue through both paintings doing the same things. If I can't find reference to any clue in BOTH paintings - I tend to discard it.
For example - the bishop appears in both at the same time. The blind man appears at the same point in the story etc.
They say LDV was a genious, this guy is up there with him.

Hello,

I can see, that your are thinking very deep about poussins painting.

Certainly are hidden messages inside and one variation to hide messages is to convert the scale.

We see the sheppards in front of a tomb. But if the scale is changed, the tomb converts to a building i.ex. into a church.

If we imagine that the woman is Mary Magdalena, so it could be a church named MM. The position of Mary gives us the position of the chorus. So the right side of the tomb is the eastside of the church. The trees behind the tomb could be a symbol for a tower.

If we follow this constuct, the sheppards are pointing to a place in the southwall of the church.

In the following grafic is shown, how this construct could give an information about a hidden entrance in the southwall of a church. Where this church is situated is not clear.

just give imagine a chance :
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Thanks to Hans for relooking at Dave's idea

I think you make a great point
Crataegus bracyacanntha which has a common name - pomme bluei, native to America.

blue haw, blueberry hawthorn.
located
USA (AL, AR, GA, LA, MS, OK, TX)

Blueberry Hawthorn, Blue Haw, Pommette Bleue,

The fruit of blueberry hawthorn is is an almost metallic bright shiny blue that ripens in August. This hawthorn is the tallest of the Texas species, and the only Texas hawthorn with blue fruit. It grows on rich soils in east Texas. Its leaves are almost mature by the time the flowers appear.

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/ornamentals/natives/trees/Crataegusb1560.jpg

the Indians used the fruit

Unlike ordinary hawthorn trees, it flowers twice a year (hence the name "biflora"), the first time in winter and the second time in spring. The trees in the Glastonbury area have been propagated by grafting since ancient times


Prunus spinosa (blackthorn or sloe) is a species of Prunus native to Europe, western Asia, and locally in northwest Africa.[1][2] It is also locally naturalised in New Zealand and eastern North America

Prunus spinosa has a tetraploid (2n=4x=32) set of chromosomes
Thanks Dave

Interesting Hans which church would you be thinking?

Thank you for your reply lovuian,

this posting is a part of my research. The church I am thinking about is to find inside other paintings of a wellknown artist. My profession is to analyse paintings to find messages. I learned the secret rules of the painters in the last 16 years of my research.
You must imagine that the Rennes le Chateau secret is older than 1890. Just as Saunier left tracks to following searchers, the people of the 17 th century did the same. The picture of poussin is one of them.

After the 30 years long war (1618-1648) great changes are the result. In this time nobody knows what is comming in the future. So all the secrets have to be fortified und the tracks must be generated in a new updated form. In this time a lot of genius painters are at work, to create the hidden messages. Poussin was only one of them.

In case of RLC, the messages from the 17th century are not up to date, because Saunier changed the entrance to annother place. This is why he had to create new tracks like the artwork in his church.

The informations in the poussin painting are not any more correct. But the entrance was there, before Saunier began to act. Furtherhand is the knowledge about the position of the old entrance a great help to find the new one.

Please understand, that I cannot give informations where it is, but it is not the MM-church in RLC.

regards

Really what is your job title? Are you self employed? who do you work for?

thank you for your reply tingra,

my job title is "technical drawer". I am 57 years old and my English is very poor (sorry about that)

16 years ago, I began to study the works of the masters of the netherlands painters from the 15th, 16th century. My employers are : Jan van Eyck, Hieronimus Bosch, and the German artist Albrecht Dürer. The theoretical basement I get from the great art historical Erwin Panowsky and his theories about the "ikonologic (not iconografic) analysis" of paintings and sculptures.
Ikonology is the sience about the intention of the painters. You must be very thight to the painter, you must know his character. Erwin Panowsky said, that it is not possible to study this way of analysis on a university. You must have something which he called "synthetic intuition".
So if you expect a doctor or professor I must dissapoint you. I am sorry about that.
I am a simple man, who has just open the door to the world of the genius painters, and there will be not one day, on which I learn new things about it.

I began with the works of Jan van Eyck and found out, that he had founded rules, how to hide informations in paintings. Rules which every master painter had to know and to respect. There must be rules, because if every painter uses his own system of hide informations, nobody will be able to find the sense in hundreds of different styles and tricks.

My work is the statik of buildings , and my love is dedicated to the vaultbuildings of cathedrals and fortresses from the early middle age.
I found that the building masters of that time have created a system to give secret informations to the following masters . If there are i.ex. secret crypts under the cathedrals, it is absolut important for the following building masters, to have knowledge where this subterrain vaults are situated. It was impossible to store these informations in archieves, because they are a secret, and the danger of discovery is to high. So they found a system to store the informations inside the building where everybody can see them, if he has eyes to see. The informations are stored in frescos, altar paintings, carvings, sculpturs in a hidden format. Here they are safe for a long time. If i.ex. after 200 years a rebuilding or renovation is needed, the masters can find the position of the secret subterrain vaults and the way how to get in. This is absolutly necessary, because vault constructions must have a solid ground on which they are based. There will be a lot of troubles, if you build a pillar on the well of a subterrain crypt.

If you want, I can give you an example how it works. Jan van Eyck painted a picture called "the madonna in the church". This painting is used by him to teach other painters his rules. This painting has a very small format and is used to be taken with on a journey.
If you are able to do, you are welcome to try an analysis first.
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I love that I so agree

Druids had a special way of teaching...it wasn't lectures ..it was the student did the learning the teacher was only there to guide not "tell you how to think"

as for the Madonna
I believe there is a reference to Chartres Cathedral in the picture
Chartres Cathedral, nave elevation. Note the independence of the triforium and clerestory levels
he is detailed for a reason

It's a mirror....and the image it is reflecting is the madonna in the church.

(Sometimes/in other paintings the mirror looks like an open window.)

We can tell by her hair that it's humid....

Hey,

I think after years of darkness, I found two experts.

@ lovuian : You are very tight to the solution. It is in the triforium. Something is wrong with the scale. She is too large (not only in Texas everything is large ). But it is okay, because she is a symbol for a part of the building : she is a pillar. Look at her clothes in the region of her feet and her breast. The fall of the folds are looking like the structure of the pilar left from her. The Fighter plane (in German : Kämpferebene) is her belt. The triforium is located where Jesus puts his hands on. Her neck is the clerestory level and her head is the vault. Look at the colour of her skin and the colour of the vault and the clerestory level. This is the reason why she is so large. She is not in the church - she is the building. Specialists are looking for, which church is shown, but there is no result. I think that he only painted the type of a church which was just rebuilded from a romanic to a gothic form.


@ serendipity : You are also very tight to the solution. It is a mirrowed situation.Look at the light, which is flooding into the room from the left side. This is impossible, because the left side of a church (from the position of a visitor) is the northside. This is a fact, which will set your mind to the idea of mirroring the picture or parts of it. On her clothes are words written. In a translation it means : "calculated against the light, she will be the nicest women under the stars...." . This is a order to mirror (to calculate against the light). The idea with her humid hair will give me a reason to think about it.
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Before I give the solution, I will wait to give furthercoming posts a chance.

chapeau to both of you !
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thanks Hans
and I will let you know Serendipity has done some great photos with the mirroring look at some of her thread
she does paintings

she is a pillar

Well Well
you are right
and I will say it reflects the Asherah Pillar
Asherah is the consort of the god El.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Image:Joshua-stone.jpg

Joshua "took a large stone and set it up there under the oak near the holy place of the Lord." (Joshua 24:26)

I can see her as a Pillar

Hi lovuian,

thank you for your positive reply. But the fact, that she is the pillar ist not useful to find the place where you can get access to the secret vault.
Remenber, I wrote that the master-builder stored informations in the artwork of the church, which are giving notes to the following builders, where the entrance to the secret vaults are situated. If the following builders know the entrance, they can go in and have a look how large the vault is and where it is.

If we get knowledge that she is a pillar, is it a note that the staircase is inside a pillar. Now we have to find the entrance to the stairs.
Look at Jesus, he puts his hands on a part of her chlothes which is a symbol for the triforium. He hold his hands in a way, which people are using if they will show an altitude.
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So we understand that the door is hide in the triforium in the region of a pillar. If you have a look at the whole painting you can see that every pilar has a door on the triforium exept of one. The north pillar of the chorus-bow has no door. But notice that she is standing exactly in front of this pillar, which means that she is the north-pillar of the chorus bow, and there is no door visible in the triforium. So there must be the hidden door we are lookinfg for. Her "right" eye is according to the pillaraxis.
Analysing this region in the triforium we can see little holes in the outside wall of the triforium. These are socalled scaffold holes, where wooden beams can be set in to carry a scaffold, if you want to "work or to walk" on the outside of the triforium.
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But we have an order to mirror, because the light is coming from the wrong side and the words on her chlothes give us an order "to calculate against the light" - to mirror. If we want to mirror parts of the painting, we need any mirroraxis. All we have is the pillaraxis and the scaffold holes, which could be marks of an axis. We need a scaffold (a help) to come to the destination (the door). So I mirrored on that points. The result is amazing and needs no comment.
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..
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This is the way on which Jan van Eyck want us to walk on. But in his paintings he never uses the same "tricks". We must find a different way in every painting. The most interesting analysis is from the genter altarpiece which gives me a knowledge about the waterlocked subterrain vaults.

btw : if I try to use the link to "joshua stone" I get "acces denied"

Hi Hans, i've done quite a large amount of research concerning this painting since I posted this article. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that our friend Poussin aswell as several other key players in this mystery are mixed up in the occult and that the very nature of the mystery of RLC is occult based.
In fact I would go asfar as to say that I now believe that Jesus Christ himself was a practising occultist and that the miracles he was said to have performed were a fraud based on occult practises.

Yes Dave,

I do not know your understanding about occultisim, but I found out that the socalled "horse of god" is a secret (occult ?) power, on which the church is "riding". This horse of god or the hidden stream of arcadia is a technology based on water.
Jesus walks on water (he is carried by water), he changed water into wine, the water of life, he was is baptized with water, the holy water , water,water.....

All this informations I get out of the paintings from van Eyck and Hieronimus Bosch. Maybe you know that water has certain properties to store informations (Masaru Emoto).

Well, I guess you shouldn't have mentioned that person. Now watch out, they're gonna get ya.

Wow, I mention the 'sad pig' on another thread and this comes back to life...

this one of Poussins is alchemical

the goddess with the eye on her crown

Hi, Eginolf - nice to meet you here.

The person of Emoto is only an example . His pictures are showing the properties of the water to store informations. There are a lot of other people, who found the same results.

Water can store informations, by forming clusters. A great part of our body is made of water. If we drink informated water, it is possible that these informations are getting a part of us. This not a discovery from Emoto. I used his name, because a lot of people know him. I have no knowledge about his personal story. Is he a persona non grata in the UK ? Forget it I am talking about water, not about the person Emoto.

yep, water water everywhere but not a drop to drink

I agree with that and more so.