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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 8:16 am 
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Thanks Rain,

In that book is also a lot of the symbolism from Sauniere but also in documents and places related to the mystery.......

I say "this place is terrible" from Jacob and the ladder, a rainbow or prisma and the colour red.....where is the red serpent starting with!

Doves above the porch in Rlc, salamanders on the baptism font, the colour blue....blue apples......

Attachment:
jacob-porch.jpg
jacob-porch.jpg [ 63.98 KiB | Viewed 1793 times ]


It's not only Sauniere that uses the symbolism we find in this rosicrucian books, there is more in the area for example

Attachment:
fountain lions.jpg
fountain lions.jpg [ 71.95 KiB | Viewed 1793 times ]


Like this fountain and tower?.....

Attachment:
elisabeth van buren.jpg
elisabeth van buren.jpg [ 15.24 KiB | Viewed 1793 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 9:13 am 
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Berkana wrote:
Thanks Rain,

In that book is also a lot of the symbolism from Sauniere but also in documents and places related to the mystery.......

I say "this place is terrible" from Jacob and the ladder, a rainbow or prisma and the colour red.....where is the red serpent starting with!

Doves above the porch in Rlc, salamanders on the baptism font, the colour blue....blue apples......


I think I'll track down the book - hard copy and go through it slowly, interesting about the rainbow and prism. Cheers Berkana

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 7:52 pm 
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Thanks for the book link Berkana :D . I think you might be on to something with the symbolism of EVB's lions/fountain. I can't imagine that it is/was a normal garden decoration especially due to its location in the middle of a field. Any chance one of our geometry people could give any thought to its specific position. Does it have anything relating to astronomy ( as well as astrology ) ? From memory, I don't think that there appeared to be any visual relationship to the Tour Magdala or the Tour d'Alchemie. When I get chance I'll have a quick look on Google Earth.
Egi, I know you were familiar with EVB. Did she ever mention any specific information about Thoth and other Egyptology
and/or astrology. Makes me wonder what she was doing with the refurbished windmill as well :?
Regards
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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 8:20 pm 
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BULLDOGNIC wrote:
Thanks for the book link Berkana :D . I think you might be on to something with the symbolism of EVB's lions/fountain. I can't imagine that it is/was a normal garden decoration especially due to its location in the middle of a field. Any chance one of our geometry people could give any thought to its specific position. Does it have anything relating to astronomy ( as well as astrology ) ? From memory, I don't think that there appeared to be any visual relationship to the Tour Magdala or the Tour d'Alchemie. When I get chance I'll have a quick look on Google Earth.
Egi, I know you were familiar with EVB. Did she ever mention any specific information about Thoth and other Egyptology
and/or astrology. Makes me wonder what she was doing with the refurbished windmill as well :?
Regards
Nic


It's a representation of a traditional magnetic compass. On the other thread when I pointed out the 4 direction in Western Civilisation I was alluding to this. A square in the inner temple divided in 4 sections while the 5th direction is the centre. When fulcanelli and flamel say there is the dry way and wet way this is what this means. The wet way i.e. the fountain rotates the needle in the centre. Along with intimate knowledge of the stars they were able to navigate. It's more complicated and their are many more levels. But the basic template stays the same.
To ancient man, magnetism was considered a mystical force. So when this invisible force rotated the needle it was as if their was an invisible guiding force.

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 9:26 pm 
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rain wrote:
BULLDOGNIC wrote:
Thanks for the book link Berkana :D . I think you might be on to something with the symbolism of EVB's lions/fountain. I can't imagine that it is/was a normal garden decoration especially due to its location in the middle of a field. Any chance one of our geometry people could give any thought to its specific position. Does it have anything relating to astronomy ( as well as astrology ) ? From memory, I don't think that there appeared to be any visual relationship to the Tour Magdala or the Tour d'Alchemie. When I get chance I'll have a quick look on Google Earth.
Egi, I know you were familiar with EVB. Did she ever mention any specific information about Thoth and other Egyptology
and/or astrology. Makes me wonder what she was doing with the refurbished windmill as well :?
Regards
Nic


It's a representation of a traditional magnetic compass. On the other thread when I pointed out the 4 direction in Western Civilisation I was alluding to this. A square in the inner temple divided in 4 sections while the 5th direction is the centre. When fulcanelli and flamel say there is the dry way and wet way this is what this means. The wet way i.e. the fountain rotates the needle in the centre. Along with intimate knowledge of the stars they were able to navigate. It's more complicated and their are many more levels. But the basic template stays the same.
To ancient man, magnetism was considered a mystical force. So when this invisible force rotated the needle it was as if their was an invisible guiding force.

Thanks Rain,
What I'm trying to get my head around is why EVB decided to place this feature in that particular place ? If it represents a compass, is it purely symbolic or was she making a point ( no pun intended ) to a location in the area. So is it there as a navigational tool, or something else ?
Regards
Nic
Edited to add :-
Here are some shots of the area around her field. Sorry about the wrong sizing and being off topic.
ImageImage
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 10:50 pm 
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BULLDOGNIC wrote:
Thanks Rain,
What I'm trying to get my head around is why EVB decided to place this feature in that particular place ? If it represents a compass, is it purely symbolic or was she making a point ( no pun intended ) to a location in the area. So is it there as a navigational tool, or something else ?
Regards
Nic


Utilising a windmill and pillar means she did to some extent recognise what she was looking for. Does it point to anything in particular - I have no idea but she's not my first point of reference because of her extreme views.(let's put it another way she didn't reign in her imagination)

The point of the Compass is that represents what is in the inner temple and the partial responsiblity of such temples i.e. rosicrucian - rosy cross, The rose is the rose wind compass of ancient times and the Cross is red thread and represents the two cords.

Explaining Christian Rosenkruetz is little bit more complicated because it involves Christian philosophy.

The whole point of this particular compass was not just to navigate but to do so according to nature and the elements and the sacred energy spots. So it has a purpose beyond what we simply use it for today.

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 11:10 pm 
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rain wrote:
(let's put it another way she didn't reign in her imagination)


Van Buren wasn't the queen of her own fertile mind? (sorry, couldn't resist!)

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 11:13 pm 
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BULLDOGNIC wrote:
Here are some shots of the area around her field. Sorry about the wrong sizing and being off topic.


Great pictures, the top two really show the plateau like nature of the field, but just wanted to mention, the photo at the bottom shows the arrow shape of conifers I remember, so if speculating about possible geometery, navigational aspects, etc., I wonder if that might play a part? And also the single column, presumably, standing off on its own. I think the tower has been really nicely restored, but the placement of pond, column and conifer windbreak facing the wrong way doesn't hang together at all from a landscape design point of view, imo, even as a folly, so therefore there must have been some other factor at work when setting it out, so it does make you wonder because it all seems so odd. I sometimes wonder if it was unfinished, maybe a work in progress ... :?


Last edited by richard.webster on 28 Sep 2011 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 11:14 pm 
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TCP wrote:
rain wrote:
(let's put it another way she didn't reign in her imagination)


Van Buren wasn't the queen of her own fertile mind? (sorry, couldn't resist!)

TCP


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 11:19 pm 
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richard.webster wrote:
BULLDOGNIC wrote:
Here are some shots of the area around her field. Sorry about the wrong sizing and being off topic.


Great pictures, the top two really show the plateau like nature of the field, but just wanted to mention, the photo at the bottom shows the arrow shape of conifers I remember, so if speculating about possible geometery, navigational aspects, etc., I wonder if that might play a part? And also the single column, presumably, standing off on its own. I think the tower has been really nicely restored, but the placement of pond, column and conifer windbreak facing the wrong way doesn't hang together at all from a landscape design point of view, imo, even as a folly, so therefore there must have been some other factor at work when setting it out, so it does make you wonder. I sometimes wonder if it was unfinished, maybe a work in progress ... :?


I just deleted something about an arrow. Yah, found it again, miracle. See below.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/sex/ipi/ipi09.htm
Quote:
THE SUN-GODS OF ANTIQUITY.
When considering the sacred bull of antiquity, the symbol of the fecundating force in nature, I referred to Osiris the national sun-god of the Egyptians, as distinguished from the Semitic Seth (Set), who was identified with the detested Shepherd race. The association of Osiris with Khem shows his phallic character, 108 and, in fact, Plutarch asserts that he was everywhere represented with the phallus exposed. 109 The phallic idea enters, moreover, into the character of all the chief Egyptian deities. Bunsen says: "The mythological system obviously proceeded from 'the concealed god,' Ammon, to the creating god. The latter appears first of all as the generative power of nature in the phallic god Khem, who is afterwards merged in Ammon-ra. Then sprung up the idea of the creative power in Kneph. He forms the divine limbs of Osiris (the primeval Soul) in contradiction to Ptah, who, as the strictly demiurgic principle, forms the visible world. Neith is the creative principle, as nature represented under a feminine form. Finally, her son Ra, Helios, appears as the last of the series, in the character of father and nourisher of terrestrial things. It is he whom an ancient monument represents as the demiurgic principle, creating the mundane egg." 110 The name of Ammon has led to the notion that he was the embodiment of the idea of wisdom. He certainly was distinguished by having the human form, but his hieroglyphical symbol of the obelisk, and his connection with Khem, show his true nature. He undoubtedly represented the primitive idea of a generative god, probably at a time when this notion of fecundity had not yet been extended to nature as distinguished from man, and thus he would form a point of contact between the later Egyptian sun-gods and the pillar-gods of the Semites and Phoenicians. 111 To the Egyptians, as to these other peoples, the sun became the great source of deity. His fecundating warmth or his fiery destroying heat were, however, not the only attributes deified. These were the most important, but the Egyptians, especially, made gods out of many of the solar characters; 112 although the association of the idea of "intellect" with Ammon-ra must have been of late date, if the original nature of Ammon be what I have suggested.

As man, however, began to read nature aright, and as his moral and intellectual faculties were developed, it was necessary that the solar deities themselves should become invested with co-relative attributes, or that other gods should be formed to embody them. The perception of light, as distinct from heat, was a fertile source of such attributes. In the Chaldean mythology, Vul, the son of Anu, was the god of the air; but his power had relation to the purely atmospheric phenomena rather than to light. 113 The only reference to light I find in the titles of the early deities is in the character ascribed to Va-Iua, the later Bar or Nin-ip, who is said to irradiate the nations like the sun, the light of the gods. 114 But this deity was apparently the distant planet Saturn, although it may have been originally the moon, and I would refer to the Aryan mind the perception of light as a divine attribute. 115 Thus the Hindu Dyaus (the Greek Zeus) is the shining deity--the god of the bright sky. As such, the sun-gods now also become the gods of intellectual wisdom, an attribute which likewise appears to have originated with the Aryan peoples, amongst whom the Brahmans were the possessors of the highest wisdom, as children of the sun, and whose Apollo and Athene were noble embodiments of this attribute. The Chaldean gods Hea and Nebo were undoubtedly symbolized by the wedge or arrow-head, which had especial reference to learning. In reality, however, this symbol merely shows that they were the patrons of letters or writing, and not of "wisdom," in its purely intellectual aspect. If the form of the Assyrian alphabetical character was of phallic origin, 116 we have here the source of the idea of a connection between physical and mental knowledge embodied in the legend of the "fall." In the Persian Ahuro-Mazdao (the Wise Spirit) we have the purest representation of intellectual wisdom. The book of Zoroaster, the Avesta, is literally the "Word"--the word or wisdom which was revealed in creation, and embodied in the divine Mithra, who was himself the luminous sun-god.

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 11:27 pm 
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rain wrote:
TCP wrote:
rain wrote:
(let's put it another way she didn't reign in her imagination)


Van Buren wasn't the queen of her own fertile mind? (sorry, couldn't resist!)

TCP


:lol:


Rain said reign but meant rein (sorry, couldn't resist :wink: )

Who ever said English wasn't confusing? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 11:48 pm 
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A "lion sejant" is sitting on his haunches, with both forepaws on the ground.
According to the Book of Genesis of the Hebrew Bible, the Israelite Tribe of Judah had the Lion of Judah as its symbol.
Image

This Lion capital of Ashoka is a sculpture of four "Indian lions" standing back to back. It was originally placed atop the Asoka pillar at Sarnath,

Pliny the Elder wrote that the Egyptians worshipped the stars of Leo because the rise of their great river coincided with the Sun entering among them.

Sidereal and tropical are the terms for two systems of ecliptic coordinates used in astrology.

Both divide the ecliptic into a number of "signs" named after constellations, but while the sidereal system defines the signs based on the fixed stars, the tropical system defines it based on the position of vernal equinox (i.e. the intersection of the ecliptic with the celestial equator). Because of the precession of the equinoxes, the two systems do not remain fixed relative to each other but drift apart by about 1.4 arc degrees per century.

Tropical system was present in Mesopotamian astrology adopted by the Greeks probably during Hellenistic period and remains prevalent in western astrology. A sidereal system is used in Hindu astrology, and in some 20th-century systems of western astrology.

In tropical astrology, the Sun is considered to be in the sign Leo from July 22 to August 22

July 22 Mary Magdalene's feast day

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 12:00 am 
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Quote:
Rain said reign but meant rein (sorry, couldn't resist :wink: )

Who ever said English wasn't confusing? :lol:


:lol: You're right okay very funny. I can imagine you sitting there giggling about the whole thing Richard. And after all my hard work on the arrow. :P tut tut.

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 Post subject: Lions
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 1:29 am 
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Image

The Moorish lion fountain - Alhambra, Grenada, Spain.

Re: the Jabob`s ladder/rainbow, IBJ compares the staff of

Moses to the rainbow as a gate to the underworld in his

"Geminae Cristae, Geminae Portae" article. The Geminae Portae are

the twin gates to the underworld.

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 3:51 am 
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richard.webster wrote:
Rain said reign but meant rein (sorry, couldn't resist :wink: )

Who ever said English wasn't confusing? :lol:


The Tsar's bazaars' bizarre beaux-arts... :lol:

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 7:57 pm 
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lovuian wrote:
In tropical astrology, the Sun is considered to be in the sign Leo from July 22 to August 22

July 22 Mary Magdalene's feast day


Actually it's July 23rd to August 22nd. Magdalene's feast day falls in the sign of Cancer, not Leo.

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 9:51 pm 
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TCP wrote:
richard.webster wrote:
Rain said reign but meant rein (sorry, couldn't resist :wink: )

Who ever said English wasn't confusing? :lol:


The Tsar's bazaars' bizarre beaux-arts... :lol:

TCP


My accent doesn't support you're phrasing. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 9:56 pm 
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TCP
Quote:
Actually it's July 23rd to August 22nd. Magdalene's feast day falls in the sign of Cancer, not Leo.

TCP

Where I got my dates for Leo was from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_astrology


Sidereal and tropical are the terms for two systems of ecliptic coordinates used in astrology.

In Indian Hindu astrology, Sidereal astronomy was well known since the Vedic period.

Hellenistic astrology developed from Babylonian astrology consider the seasonal cycle of Tropical zodiac that it is divided by the intersections of the ecliptic and equator which shift is relation to the backdrop of fixed stars at a rate of 1° every 72 years, creating the phenomenon known as precession of the equinoxes

The discovery of the precession of the equinoxes is attributed to Hipparchus, a Greek astronomer active in the later Hellenistic period (ca. 130 BCE). Ptolemy, writing some 250 years after Hipparchus, was thus aware of the effects of precession. He opted for a definition of the zodiac based on the point of vernal equinox, i.e. the tropical system.

While Ptolemy noted that Ophiuchus is in contact with the ecliptic, he was aware that the twelve signs were just conventional names for 30 degrees segments (especially since the Aries sign had ceased to be in contact with the Aries constellation already in his time).

this is the symbol for the Serpent holder
Opichurus

Image

look familiar?

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 10:56 pm 
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lovuian wrote:
Where I got my dates for Leo was from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_astrology


Then I suggest you look elsewhere. Try Googling "Leo" "July" and "23".

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2011 12:09 am 
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Thanks TCP and may I suggest you read the link on tropical Astrology as the link that is presented

Oh now where was I :?:
Berkana the Rosicrucian book really shows the different triangles and their meanings

one triangle pointing down and the other pointing up
as you said the lamb and the seven seals are part of it

the Rosicrucian lamb seemed more alive than Sauniere's but still its the Lamb and the Seven seals

Image
thanks to Nic for the Great picture

the interchange between the colors of Gold and Silver
the cross is gold and the lamb is silver
the moon silver and the gold the sun
the female and the male

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2011 1:11 am 
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TCP wrote:
lovuian wrote:
Where I got my dates for Leo was from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_astrology


Then I suggest you look elsewhere. Try Googling "Leo" "July" and "23".

TCP


actually, the new date for Leo, will be August 10

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 Post subject: Rosslyn
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2011 2:11 am 
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The origin of the symbolism for the constellation Leo was the Nile at that time of year where the lions gathered.

Image
Lions gathered at the Nile River in Uganda.

"Many civilizations over thousands of years have portrayed the constellation of Leo as a lion. One theory is that the Sun was among its stars in Midsummer, during which time the lions of the Egyptian desert left their accustomed haunts for the banks of the Nile, where they could find relief from the heat in the waters of the inundation. Pliny the Elder wrote that the Egyptians worshipped the stars of Leo because the rise of their great river coincided with the Sun entering among them. The constellation is referred to in an inscription on the walls of the Ramesseum at Thebes, which, like the Nile temples generally, was adorned with the animal's bristles. On the planisphere of Dendera, its figure is shown standing on an outstretched serpent. The Egyptian stellar Lion, however, comprised only a part of the modern constellation, and in the earliest records some of its stars were shown as a knife, whereas they now are as a sickle. Kircher gave its title there as Πιμεντεκεων."

Image

The corn carvings of Rosslyn Chapel 50 years before the official discovery of America by Columbus.

Image Image

The Rosslyn carvings show groups of 4 cobs of corn. Display of blue, white, yellow, and red corn.

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2011 9:28 am 
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lovuian wrote:
Thanks TCP and may I suggest you read the link on tropical Astrology as the link that is presented

Oh now where was I :?:
Berkana the Rosicrucian book really shows the different triangles and their meanings

one triangle pointing down and the other pointing up
as you said the lamb and the seven seals are part of it

the Rosicrucian lamb seemed more alive than Sauniere's but still its the Lamb and the Seven seals


I'm still reading the both books myself, and everytime I discover new things that look familiar!
The Lamb in the first book I mentioned intrigued (pff is this word right :lol:) me because the four angels around connect it somehow with that picture from the "ex-libris" we
saw from Sauniere......BS.......Book Seals came up in my head, shame Sauniere wasn't English speaking :), but look at the angels.....

Attachment:
angels.jpg
angels.jpg [ 58.38 KiB | Viewed 1646 times ]


That "lamb with the seven seals" wasn't that picture also on a grave somewhere next to the grave of Henri Boudet?...I wanted to compare that pic. and know who's grave that is, but I can't
find it anymore?


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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2011 3:33 pm 
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the words on the triangles
And one Triunus
There are three things wonderful things
God and Man
Mother and Virgin

the circle one
The root of David
From the reign conquered
And everywhere well
the other part is upside down

Yes Berkana
I believe there was a stone next to Boudet's grave with the lamb and the seven seals

Image
the Bread of Angels
the little cherub heads are below the chalice and cherubs above

the Holy Grail

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 Post subject: Re: Berenger Sauniere's Regalia some questions
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2011 2:48 am 
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the anchor was found on the catacombs Cemetery of Saint Priscilla
A third common item in catacomb symbology is a boat anchor. It expresses the firm expectation of eternal life that we Christians enjoy: "We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure" (Hebrews 6:19).

IHS The symbol is said to appear rarely in the catacombs, only in the catacomb of Priscilla

Image

some say the anchor has connections to the sea or water
dolphins and the trident of Neptune
Sauniere's family lived near a fountain of dolphins (fish)

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