Thomas D. wrote:
tingra wrote:
Sonar, allow me to clear up a few misconceptions about this subject for you
A few years ago a former member here (Roger) brought the subject of the crista to the forum. A few of us, that have now been christened the Crista Crew decided to research the existence of this object using as a base the work of Anne Lombard Jourdan who mentions the crista in her book. It all started off pretty amicably, it was a new subject initiated by a member who had a vast knowledge of the RLC genre and who also had a family background entwined into the history of the object in question.
In the beginning we were given a few hints and clues about where to research further, some of us followed those hints, others didn’t bother but still wanted answers regarding its existence, this lead to various heated arguments and the subject soon became one of contention. Andrew provided “the Crista crew” with a private forum so the research carried on off the main board and sometimes off the forum completely as certain information became available, information that we were asked to keep confidential. That was when the shit really hit the fan, we were subjected to threats, computers were hacked, e mails, bizarre telephone calls etc etc, and as a consequence of all that there was some parting of the ways, there was no longer any pleasure in the subject for some of us once it became political…..its as simple as that.
In conclusion, the subject is no longer discussed on here, what started out as an interesting subject turned into a bizarre series of events both on and off the forum, events that still continue with certain posters obsessions today…..
Sonar,
Let me offer an alternative perspective to the one given above..................
The discussion started amicably enough and the research was viewed and discussed by many. However, it became apparent that it wasn't a genuine voyage of discovery, as Tingra says "we were given a few hints and clues".
Even the existence of the "object" itself was speculative, Anne Lombard-Jourdain was merely postulating on a possible object link between a "cresta" of a Roman legionary standard and the fleur-de-lis adopted as an heraldic symbol by the Capetians. There is no actual object known to exist, she was looking at other objects and suggesting that these might be the "crista." The magical "druid" healing powers assigned to the object, and the tale of Saunière wielding it/them, were add-ons courtesy of IBJ and his promotion team here on Arcadia.
Thomas D. wrote:
To some of us it was clear that the discussion was being led and directed in a certain direction by some in full possession of the facts who were managing a staged release of info into the public domaine.
As questions were asked about the motives of certain contributors the debate became increasingly acrimonious as it became clear that it wasn't going to plan.
What else could they do?
Thomas D. wrote:
The Private Forum was secret until its existence was detected through the co-ordinated nature and frequency of the posts of those who became known as 'Team Crista'. Its existence was denied by those seeking to control the dialogue for their own ends. Its nice to hear about it finally.
They developed a pattern, having seen it so many times in the past on other forums it wasn't hard to spot.
Thomas D. wrote:
As Tingra mentioned 'Roger' it seems fair to discuss his role.
It turned out (by his own admittance) that his intention in directing the thread was to spike a book due to be published on the subject over which he had no control. Once piecemeal release of info had spoilt the book and the thread had got out of control he announced that the subject was closed and he " didnt want to talk about it anymore".
Oh yes, absolutely. Roger provided me with a manuscript early on, before the "launch" and had me sign a confidentiality agreement before he'd send it. He was also asking me for publishing recommendations as they wanted out of their deal with Filip Coppens. Funny side story - the fax number he gave me to receive and return the signed agreement had an odd area code (not from a location Roger had ever pretended to be from) and while he told me it was his "efax" number, he told another researcher that it was the fax number at his grace-and-favor office at the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland, Ohio. The odd thing was that the RRHF is located in metropolitan Cleveland, which uses the area code 216; his was the area code for the Cleveland suburbs, 440. Intrigued, I contacted the RRHF, telling them I'd received a fax from someone there whose name wasn't on the cover sheet or the attachment; could they please give that person my name and number and have them contact me? I was told it was unlikely that the fax came from their location, because of the area code; but that it could be a home fax for someone who worked there. They would ask and get back to me. Fortunately their full-time staff is quite limited; I received a call the next day telling me that no one on staff recognized that number or had faxed me. So, I took the next logical step for the innately curious and paid $10.95 to have the number back-traced - to a residential land line in the Cleveland suburbs, as predicted.
Thomas D. wrote:
Tingra confirmed this morning, however unwittingly, for the first time that he had strong family ties to the object and, as such the thread had only ever been damage limitation rather than a genuine piece of research.
That's a new one on me, too. I'd always figured Roger to be more clever and calculating than to go down the bloodline path, especially here with so many cynics on board (though it does put more recent events in a clearer spotlight, I must say). He always claimed to be a member of Italy's former ruling family, although from the "French branch" as though it and the "Italian branch" aren't one and the same. The family's detailed genealogy lacks qualified candidates to be our Roger, at least in terms of his age and some of his biographical particulars as revealed when we were on speaking terms. I suppose we shouldn't assume any of that information was genuine though.
Thomas D. wrote:
Although now removed when he retired 'hors de combat' from the Forum it would be fair to say that his posts were characterised by an imperious and high-handed attitude to those who didn't kow-tow. A real shame because, as I always believed, he was probably in a position to have answered most of the questions over RLC had he so desired. However, in light of these family ties some might conclude there are questions still to be asked about his role in these events.
Looks can be deceptive, Thomas, because while the imperious tone may have been an effective means to lend some semblance of authenticity and privileged access to "inner circles", he never actually said anything of substance that would suggest there's any truth to it. And, by his own admission, he was rather a late-comer to the party, a Dan Brown convert who quickly saw the lay of the landscape.
Thomas D. wrote:
The subject is no longer discussed here because it no longer suits the agenda of those who originally wanted to discuss it. The existence of an object of extreme antiquity and importance was given a public profile by the former contributor for reasons that some might conclude were slightly disingenuous to say the least.
Yes, and presented to me as something "quite" different in terms of motivation from the get-go. Not sure whether the intended effect was to keep me neutral or get me to play along.
Thomas D. wrote:
My own role was merely to question the stage managing of events and the illogicality of the discourse. This attracted some fairly trenchant criticism and a startling degree of personal abuse from certain quarters which reflected poorly on those involved. I've never felt the need to reciprocate this undignified behavior.
There was no need to, keeping your sense of humor served you well.
Thomas D. wrote:
Most of the original posts were deleted upon Roger's departure but the 'rump' of Team Crista still carry a torch as you can see, quite touching really!
If there was an award for PR disaster this whole sorry, mismanaged episode would definitely be a nominee.
For me it would be a contender, but it's got some pretty strong competition. We've had no shortage of hoaxes go bad here.
Thomas D. wrote:
I would welcome any comments from Forum members who were members at the time and feel I've misrepresented the events in any way or from those who feel that this is a fair summation.
TD
I think you've done a wonderful job in summation.
TCP
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......quite sickening that anyone would go to those lengths dont you agree? 
