Arcadia Discussion Zone

Forums dedicated to history's mysteries, Rennes-le-Château and beyond…

Read the Arcadia Forum House Rules

It is currently 24 May 2013 1:08 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 65 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2010 4:36 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm
Posts: 3856
may have had more to do with military matters than any biblical/political considerations.

Why would the Israelis be interested in France militarily?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2010 4:56 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm
Posts: 3856
Interesting about this Dayan:

http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/JHS/Articles/article_27.pdf


"Conclusions:
It is not easy to conclude such a long and complicated story. First, it must be made clear that Dayan never was an archaeologist. Only blind followers can call him “a superb
archaeologist” (Slater 1991:161). Dayan was a robber of antiquities, who had never acquired nor showed the slightest interest in acquiring scientific knowledge, such as methods of excavation, dating, stratigraphy, etc. This is the very soul of archaeological excavation, which should never be a crude search of nice finds. Dayan never took academic courses in archaeology, though he had an opportunity in 1959. His allegedly “deep knowledge” was confined to antiquities-dealing- identifying forgeries, estimating monetary value, bargaining and possessing ‘merchandise’.
8.2 Dayan honestly loved his hobby and was searching for roots and everything that could come under that term. When he became Minister of Defense in 1967, he chose four pictures “reflecting Jewish history” to decorate his office- including one of the Egyptian temple at Serabit el Khadem (Dayan 1976:354-5). He associated all antiquities with his roots, because he related it first of all with himself. Chalcolithic or Canaanites dwellers were his forebears, this was the important point, and not the religion they practiced. Hence those who disliked Dayan’s allegedly ‘Canaanite’ or ‘un-Jewish’ preferences miss the point (e.g. Sheshar 1986; Rosenson 1991). Dayan was eclectic in his collection. What allured him was the “hunting”, the sense of danger and excitement, the pride in doing it himself and the desire to possess. Possession was a key motive in his life. Archaeologists also know the same desire- we often err in speaking about “our sites”, “our finds”. Archaeologists collect books- a sublimation of the same desire. But this is legitimate, and we do not use army helicopters for that aim.
8.3 The evidence indicates the immense scope of Dayan’s illicit robbery of antiquities during three decades. From an innocent help by friends, he gradually developed nets of informers and accomplices- children, soldiers, robbers and dealers. From symbolic gifts, he moved into precious items on the antiquities-markets. Nothing mattered except possession: Dayan robbed sites even when they were being excavated at the same time by professional
archaeologists; hampered scientific excavations while robbing sites; damaged sites with bulldozers; and used army equipment and personnel for private gains.
8.4 Miberg’s verdict (1991:20), that Dayan corrupted in his archaeological activities the whole archaeology of Israel is too extreme. Yet, Dayan’s activity caused a lot of damage by undermining principles of law and order in a democratic state. Dayan corrupted others. Army commanders started to cultivate their own collections; citizens erected private antiquities gardens. Dayan did not invent or cause all these phenomenons, but because of his high public status, he became a negative model for others. It is common for modern states to use archaeological sites and finds in order to prove common descent, rights to disputed territories, and political legitimacy. Archaeology and antiquities are used to weld social bonds and consciousness that build nations (cf. Smith 1991; Anderson 1983). While antiquities belong to humanity in general, we still leave in a world of nations in which antiquities are said to belong to nations. Although this is not an ideal system, it is far better than the former world of antiquaries and private ownership of antiquities. Thus, one cannot justify Dayan as a sort of modern Robin Hood who fights ‘the establishment’. Dayan was part and parcel of the establishment, and all his digging and robbing were done to satisfy his private greed.
8.5 Because of an unfortunate combination of factors, Dayan was not stopped. This was due to his very high position and influence, to the weakness of the IDAM at that time, to the lack of act by the higher authorities, and to the shortcomings of the Antiquities law. The Israeli law of antiquities in use today was passed only in 1978, and even this law does not prohibit dealing and selling of antiquities. The failure to stop Dayan cannot be placed at the feet of the IDAM alone. Museums bought robbed antiquities from Dayan, archaeologists published selected finds from his collection, the media turned almost a blind eye to his deeds and the police and the Knesset ignored complains against him. The failure to stop Dayan shows the state of immaturity of society as a whole (Falk 1985:245-246).
8.6 Fortunately, there is an optimistic side to this story, when we compare it to the situation in Israel at present. What Dayan did is unthinkable today. The media is much stronger, and criticism of public figures is a daily matter. Prime Ministers cannot escape police inquiries, and Ministers are condemned in court (as recent cases of Ministers Der’i and Mordechai prove). The IAA, the body that replaced the IDAM in 1989, is also much stronger. Supervision and protection of sites are better and result in many more sites being saved, or at least documented by salvage excavations (Kletter and De-Groot 2001). The public, by large, accepted the view that robbing antiquities is illegal, and that antiquities are a public treasure. The once common habit of individuals placing antiquities in their gardens, for example, has passed away. Museums signed an international treaty prohibiting purchase of stolen antiquities. I am not naive to think that all the problems are solved, and Israel is still a focus of a large scale illicit robbing and trade in antiquities. No doubt, archaeologists still make mistakes, but almost all academic and professional archaeologists in Israel today would never lend a hand to illicit robbery and trade.
In his poem Gerontion, T.S. Elliot (1935:38) writes: “After such knowledge/ What forgiveness?/ Think now/ History has many cunning Pages/ Contrieved corridors/ And issues, deceives with wispering ambitions/ Guides us by vanity”. After this long and laborious review, the question whether the “books” about Dayan’s illicit archaeological activities should finally be closed is a matter I leave for readers to decide"
.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2010 6:07 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2008 12:53 am
Posts: 8920
Location: Los Angeles
bergeredearcadie wrote:
Esclarmonde was hardly a bastard.

Hello TCP,

I found this on the same website i quoted from - seems it is a different Esclarmonde....


She is indeed a different Esclarmonde, wife of Bernard d'Alion and the (very legitimate) daughter of Raymond-Roger of Foix by his wife Philippa de Moncada. She was the niece and namesake of the more famous Esclarmonde, her father's sister, as well as the aunt of her brother Raymond-Roger II's (also very legitimate) daughter of the same name.

Raymond-Roger indeed begat two illegitimate children on two different women, both male. The only one who survived infancy was Loup de Foix, Seigneur de Saverdun, whose known descendants number in the thousands. Loup's mother was Obria Pennautier, who was not an abbess and who was later married to Jourdain de Cabarret.

Also the bit about Esclarmonde being unable to provide her husband Bernard d'Alion with a desired male heir is false. More than thirty generations of descendants from her son Guillaume d'Alion d'Ussan down to the present day are documented.

I'm afraid this "legendary" Esclarmonde is a more recent invention whose purpose is to cover past errors and stupid mistakes made by amateurs unfamiliar with the Foix family genealogy.

TCP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2010 6:15 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 15 May 2008 7:42 pm
Posts: 4107
Location: NEWCASTLE on the Tyne
Roger wrote:
In order for Dayan's involvement/interest in the area, one would have to "buy" into the premise that whatever items were possibly to be recovered would have a biblical/middle-eastern connection, as Dayan never had any interest in any other class of antiquities.

And THAT, opens a completely different can of worms with regard to what realistic possibilities might have fit the bill... or might've been believed - through legend and/or local myth - to have fit the bill. (No, not the Ark... that's a non-starter, but there are other possibilities that might have been believed)


Aarons rod...staff of Moses.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2010 7:09 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2008 12:53 am
Posts: 8920
Location: Los Angeles
bergeredearcadie wrote:
Hence my interest in this Pumaz character - because he is saying what Cherisey says. I wondered if Pumaz was Cherisey???
Hence, does anyone know who this Caggers person is?


Of course. He is (was) Georges Cagger, there is quite a bit about him available via a comprehensive Google search. Picknett and Prince might have picked up that scent years ago but apparently nver followed it through to conclusion.

I will go out on a limb here and surmise that because of his association with "Prince" Guillermo Grau-Moctezuma and his role in the creation of a pseudo-historical provenance for Grau's "Catalan Templar" continuation in the mid-1960s, "Pumaz" might be indicative of membership in Grau's rather "elite" Order of the Black Puma.

See page 25 of James R, Lewis' The Order of the Solar Temple: The Temple of Death for a tiny bit of background on Grau.

TCP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2010 7:21 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm
Posts: 3856
In order for Dayan's involvement/interest in the area, one would have to "buy" into the premise that whatever items were possibly to be recovered would have a biblical/middle-eastern connection, as Dayan never had any interest in any other class of antiquities.

And THAT, opens a completely different can of worms with regard to what realistic possibilities might have fit the bill... or might've been believed - through legend and/or local myth - to have fit the bill. (No, not the Ark... that's a non-starter, but there are other possibilities that might have been believed)


Firstly, has it been proved that Dayan was EVEN in the RLC area?

Is it true that he was associated with Bettex?
"It was whispered by some that Bettex was on the verge of locating the Ark of the Covenant itself and had been personally briefed by the Israeli general Moshe Dayan. Some believe Bettex was a member of a secret society or that his work in the Razes was part funded by the Israeli intelligence ..'

And reading about Dayan, and his stealing of antiquities, it would seem ANY artifact, large or small, which had ANY link to Israels history would be fair game for him.

Presumably the legends of the Temple treasure coming to the South of France via the Visigoths - would have appealed to him?

But - it means nothing, if no one can prove he was even in the area. And even if he was, most people would just say he was following his own private whims and fantasies reagarding artifacts i suppose.

I am certainly persuaded that Israel would be interested in the legends. But did they have more to go on?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2010 7:24 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm
Posts: 3856
there is quite a bit about him available via a comprehensive Google search

I cant really find that much to go on about him.

Its all from the Perillos website .....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2010 7:36 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 9245
Location: France
http://jhaldezos.free.fr/lespersonnages ... agger.html


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2010 7:39 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm
Posts: 3856
Thanks Sheila.

I saw that. Was kind of looking for information about him though ...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2010 12:14 am 
Offline
High King
User avatar

Joined: 04 Dec 2008 7:15 pm
Posts: 2047
Location: Vienna, Austria
tingra wrote:
Roger wrote:
In order for Dayan's involvement/interest in the area, one would have to "buy" into the premise that whatever items were possibly to be recovered would have a biblical/middle-eastern connection, as Dayan never had any interest in any other class of antiquities.

And THAT, opens a completely different can of worms with regard to what realistic possibilities might have fit the bill... or might've been believed - through legend and/or local myth - to have fit the bill. (No, not the Ark... that's a non-starter, but there are other possibilities that might have been believed)


Aarons rod...staff of Moses.

In 1978 Dayan published his book "Living with the Bible".
His son Ehud Dayan wrote a critical book about his father.

BTW.
I know a man who lives in Vienna and worked as a bodyguard for Dayan. Maybe he can tell if Dayan ever was in southern France. I'll try to get that info ...

:mrgreen:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2010 2:54 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2008 12:53 am
Posts: 8920
Location: Los Angeles
Roger wrote:
Quote:
more recent invention whose purpose is to cover past errors and stupid mistakes made by amateurs unfamiliar with the Foix family genealogy


I would disagree, inasmuch as I don't believe the errors were "errors" at all, but simply in aid of a dual-purpose agenda. There's more nonsense than fact being pushed upon the gullible when it comes to supposedly "Cathar families", and it shouldn't surprise anyone, considering the circumstances.


I'd be less charitable myself had it not been clear (to me, anyway) that the perpetrators agenda was cram as much information about "Esclarmonde" into a single composite without regard to dates and biographical particulars. When these details came back to bite them in the rear, the only course was to suggest that they were speaking about another Esclarmonde entirely, not any of the three documented candidates. I chalk it up to negligence more so than anything sinister.

TCP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2010 3:10 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm
Posts: 3856
They're merely clueless exploiters of an artifact they do not understand.

And whats the artifact they dont 'understand'?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2010 3:16 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 07 Nov 2006 11:57 pm
Posts: 3856
OK.

But seeing as only Douzet and SP have this 'report' does one trust it?

Hence my obtaining of the stuff in the original Journals ....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2010 8:16 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 9245
Location: France
....so it seems there are two hearts and the wrong one was chosen for the DNA test. The real heart had been kept by the Comte de Chambord....or is there something else going on?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2010 8:29 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 15 May 2008 7:42 pm
Posts: 4107
Location: NEWCASTLE on the Tyne
i didnt realise until recently that there is a funeral tradition amongst the European royalty of removing the heart before buriel :D

The skeletal remains of a medieval warrior were found in an 11th century tomb in the church of Ganagobie Priory in the French Department of Alpes de Haute Provence. Examination revealed evidence of multiple injuries including an arrow in the thorax, several sword blows, and a fractured sternum. The chest had been opened probably to allow removal of the heart after the last fatal blow to the skull. Post-mortem ablation of the heart was a widespread medieval funerary practice among elite classes in northern Europe. Numerous cases have been described involving British and French royalty. The practice was based on a mystical Middle Age belief that the heart was the spiritual and moral centre. After ablation, the heart was buried separately in a high place of holy worship where the living could pray for the salvation of deceased's soul. The rest of the body was sometimes dismembered and boiled to keep only the skeleton. Pope Boniface VIII forbade body boiling in 1299. In France the practice of removing and burying the heart in a sacred worship place continued among royalty, noblemen, and ecclesiastics until the Revolution of 1789. A few cases were reported into the 19th century.
Copyright © 2004 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
http://web.prm.ox.ac.uk/rpr/index.php/o ... t-18845718


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2010 9:44 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2008 12:53 am
Posts: 8920
Location: Los Angeles
tingra wrote:
In France the practice of removing and burying the heart in a sacred worship place continued among royalty, noblemen, and ecclesiastics until the Revolution of 1789. A few cases were reported into the 19th century.


Well, into the 20th, actually. Possibly beyond, who knows?

TCP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2010 10:06 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 9245
Location: France
http://louis17.ifrance.com/louisxviib.pdf

don't know if this is relevant if it's "something else"...but.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2010 10:27 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2008 12:53 am
Posts: 8920
Location: Los Angeles
Sheila wrote:
http://louis17.ifrance.com/louisxviib.pdf

don't know if this is relevant if it's "something else"...but.


Image

S.A.R. Louis Alphonse de Bourbon (Louis XX)
S.A. le duc d’Anjou tient l’urne en cristal qui contient le cœur de Louis XVII lors de la cérémonie solennelle de déposition de cette relique dans la Basilique de Saint-Denis, à Paris, le 8 juillet 2004.

http://www.lesmanantsduroi.com/articles2/article5394.php

TCP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2010 11:37 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2008 12:53 am
Posts: 8920
Location: Los Angeles
Roger wrote:
Quite apart from his trying his best to look like an Argentinian polo-player/gigolo, Alfie is a real riot ... BTW, that's not the original urn.. I guess the original was smelted down for pocket money at the track?


This one has a nifty little gold fleur-de-lis at the top, I think the original was a glass specimen jar. The actual heart looks like an old pork chop.

A riot, huh? Hopefully he's got more personality than the "other" Duc d'Anjou (aka the Duque de Cadaval in jure uxoris) whom I've met and can't abide.

TCP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2010 2:27 am 
Offline
High King
User avatar

Joined: 04 Dec 2008 7:15 pm
Posts: 2047
Location: Vienna, Austria
tingra wrote:
i didnt realise until recently that there is a funeral tradition amongst the European royalty of removing the heart before buriel :D

I read that also one of the Hautpouls had this treatment done.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2010 5:21 am 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2008 12:53 am
Posts: 8920
Location: Los Angeles
Eginolf wrote:
tingra wrote:
i didnt realise until recently that there is a funeral tradition amongst the European royalty of removing the heart before buriel :D

I read that also one of the Hautpouls had this treatment done.


Lots of people did. One of my people had his heart entombed at Notre Dame des Victoires in Paris in 1706.

Image

Histoire de l'Eglise de Notre-Dame-des-Victoires

TCP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2010 3:49 pm 
Offline
Acolyte

Joined: 15 Apr 2009 8:27 pm
Posts: 127
Location: Texas
rain wrote:
bergeredearcadie wrote:
Anyone have any views on this?

Relevant?

Provenance?

Important?


It's interesting because of the pic that he becomes preoccupied with.

Codebreakers always are interest to me, because they perform a function I myself struggle with. Sometimes their focus makes it too narrow but in this case there maybe more.

By being able to recognise the symbology of the pictures he maybe showing his ability to understand the finer points.

The following quote is unusual.

http://www.perillos.com/pumaz.html

Quote:
A treasure map

Then, using Boudet’s book and establishing a “Boudet meridian”, he comes to the conclusion that there are three potential locations for this treasure. He adds: “Here we are therefore confronted with a double (or triple) cache, spiritual and material. In the Razès, one can only think about the Cathar treasure, to whom such a double nature has often been attributed.” He then goes on to explain how he has gone to these sites to verify his remarks. He then quickly moves on to state that apart from those on-site inspections, he had certain encounters with people who lived there: the names are well-known: Déodat Roché, Franck Marie, Lucienne Julien, Jean Robin and Pierre Jarnac.


This is also strange because this a double inversion designed to point something out about the spear. I believe it was pointed out previously that the spear should be substituted.
It should be noted that picture ties the spear to a myth. How does he know how to do that at that time?


Quote:
The players

Next, we find several other players that are now well-known to be part of the “mystery”: Vincent de Paul, the Lazarists, etc. Specifically, he lists Bigou as a key player, a man who left his imprint and knowledge behind, before leaving and dying n Spain. And he argues that this knowledge is also about other locations, though these are not part of the mainstream interest in the enigma. He lists Bézu as one such site, stating: “There is a small church there which today is abandoned. In this building, a statue of John the Baptist, with his right arm broken and stuck back on the wrong way around (after 1959) appears to indicate a point of the vault. What can John the Baptist show us with his cut and turned over wrist?” Let us note that since, the church of Bézu has been partially restored. We also find certain notes to other seldom mentioned sites, in regards to Notre Dame de la Salette and Isère.
Though discussions about St Sulpice are now commonplace (and definitely so after The Da Vinci Code), at the time of writing, the observations Pumaz made were less if not ill-known. “In the church of Saint Sulpice in Paris: the stations of the cross; the reversed N in two signatures of the painter Signol; in the crucifixion painted by this artist, the plaque at the top of the Cross of the Saviour where the three lines are written from right to left, the Greek and the Latin thus the other way around.”
Speaking of inversions: Signol becomes Longis, which is the name of the soldier who allegedly pierced the side of Christ. Such displays of ingenuity underline his professional acquaintance with ciphers.


He makes another comment (see below) designed to point to maybe (Inferno, Purgatorio, and Paradiso) being the 3 best represented other worlds of religion. :wink:
Again, how does he know how to do that at that time?

Quote:
For Pumaz, Bigou is not a small-time priest in a godforsaken village. In fact, elsewhere, in the researchers’ magazine, he wrote that “If I come across Bigou in the other world, I will be happy to talk to him a bit…”


Here we see something altogether that has puzzled me. The two books he is referring to, the mythical - (1. The rays of gold 2. The traces of fire) or (The Golden Ray and The Line of Sight)

Quote:
In 1985, there was even a rumour that there was a role in this enigma for a priest by the name of Cauneille, as well as two books, whose existence remained unproven – or non-provable. Cagger, the man he is, makes certain enquiries and discovers that there is indeed such a person, whose name is largely written like Cauneille, but not precisely. Furthermore, no-one has devoted any attention to his man, simply, it seems, because he is a Catalan priest and – of course – most tenors of the debate exclusively focus on the Aude region, confusing the mystery of Saunière with that of his vilage. As to the two books, these are the two notebooks, which are located in Spain. He adds that he has been able to recover this information by making use of his “position”.
Let us finally add that in his unpublished material, there was also much more information about St Sulpice and the church of Bézu.


There is more but what to make of it except to say intriguing - I'm not sure because I do not, nor have I read a copy of the report.

Maybe Sandy if you put a copy of the translated report up.... :D Please. If not, I understand the article is interesting in and of itself.


I wonder if the two notebooks could be about the Cathars and their activity in Catalonia.In the book, The Yellow Cross, it has a chapter about the Cathars,Belibaste and the others being in Catalonia in the northern part.They were able to move back and forth between the two areas. Could the Cathar treasure be hidden somewhere in the region?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2010 4:24 pm 
Offline
High King
User avatar

Joined: 04 Dec 2008 7:15 pm
Posts: 2047
Location: Vienna, Austria
The cathars per sé had no treasure at all. All they possibly had was a war chest ... just in case ... to defend themselves.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2010 6:32 pm 
Offline
Queen Bee
User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2008 12:53 am
Posts: 8920
Location: Los Angeles
Eginolf wrote:
The cathars per sé had no treasure at all. All they possibly had was a war chest ... just in case ... to defend themselves.


Which wouldn't explain why they never put up a fight...

TCP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Pumaz Report
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2010 7:53 pm 
Offline
High King

Joined: 11 Nov 2009 4:34 pm
Posts: 2507
Location: traverse city,michigan
Roger wrote:
C'mon, Egi, we have all been informed that the Cathar treasure was the Grail, which itself was a feminine hygiene device having belonged to MM, and that this was hidden in Nova Scotia by the Templars.... get with the programme!




??????

_________________
on the trail of the grail


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 65 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group