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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2010 6:02 am 
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roscoe wrote:
You know TCP (a disinfectant in the UK) has made a career out of missing the point. If we weren't here he's be arguing with his shadow. It shouldn't be TCP it should be Harpic, because the advertisment says "Clean around the Bend" and you put it down the toilet.


Toilet jokes really are your best work, Roscoe. And probably the only thing anyone may remember about you when you're gone. :lol:

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2010 6:12 am 
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TCP wrote:
roscoe wrote:
You know TCP (a disinfectant in the UK) has made a career out of missing the point. If we weren't here he's be arguing with his shadow. It shouldn't be TCP it should be Harpic, because the advertisment says "Clean around the Bend" and you put it down the toilet.


Toilet jokes really are your best work, Roscoe. And probably the only thing anyone may remember about you when you're gone. :lol:

TCP


I don't think so somehow.

When I've gone you'll be still here arguing with someone about the merits of two rain drops running down the window.

I don't think I'll be remembered at all and it bothers me not in the slightest.

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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2010 9:27 am 
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TCP Liquid and I quote:-" TCP Liquid soothes, pain, fights infection, sore throats, mouth ulcers, cuts, grazes, bites, stings, boils, spots, pimples. To gargle dilute with water. Keep out of children's reach. TCP Brand Antoseptic is an aqueous glycerol solution of halogenated phenols 0.68% w/v and Phenol BP 0.175% w/v. Other ingredients - concentrated phosphoric acid, E104 (quinolene yellow), deminerlized water." My old mum used to swear by it. It was Lily the Pink to her and us kids. No home should be without it.

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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2010 9:56 am 
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What has this got to with Rennes le Chateau?

Go away with this nonsense.

Go here

Hands up all those who are fed up with this drivel on the Rennes le chateau section.


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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2010 2:26 pm 
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bergeredearcadie wrote:
What has this got to with Rennes le Chateau?

Go away with this nonsense.

Go here

Hands up all those who are fed up with this drivel on the Rennes le chateau section.


It's not been here long enough for people to get fed up.

134 posts on here.

8065 posts on The Crista. And that's just one of them.

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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2010 2:52 pm 
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alexius wrote:
TCP Liquid and I quote:-" TCP Liquid soothes, pain, fights infection, sore throats, mouth ulcers, cuts, grazes, bites, stings, boils, spots, pimples. To gargle dilute with water. Keep out of children's reach. TCP Brand Antoseptic is an aqueous glycerol solution of halogenated phenols 0.68% w/v and Phenol BP 0.175% w/v. Other ingredients - concentrated phosphoric acid, E104 (quinolene yellow), deminerlized water." My old mum used to swear by it. It was Lily the Pink to her and us kids. No home should be without it.


I rather like the idea of killing germs, fighting infection, ridding filth, and purification. Boils and pimples, beware! :twisted:

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2010 3:03 pm 
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TCP wrote:
alexius wrote:
TCP Liquid and I quote:-" TCP Liquid soothes, pain, fights infection, sore throats, mouth ulcers, cuts, grazes, bites, stings, boils, spots, pimples. To gargle dilute with water. Keep out of children's reach. TCP Brand Antoseptic is an aqueous glycerol solution of halogenated phenols 0.68% w/v and Phenol BP 0.175% w/v. Other ingredients - concentrated phosphoric acid, E104 (quinolene yellow), deminerlized water." My old mum used to swear by it. It was Lily the Pink to her and us kids. No home should be without it.


I rather like the idea of killing germs, fighting infection, ridding filth, and purification. Boils and pimples, beware! :twisted:

TCP


Well I like the bit that says It was Lily the Pink to us.

Lydia Estes Pinkham (American, February 9, 1819 – May 17, 1883) was an iconic concocter and shrewd marketer of a commercially successful herbal-alcoholic "women's tonic" meant to relieve menstrual and menopausal pains.

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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2010 4:58 pm 
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Roger wrote:
I'm sure Brother Michael is thrilled that someone remembers his aborted career, but I's love to hear your theory on the connection between Sion, in Switzerland, and the Prieure de Sion, in Annemasse, not to mention the later revival of same for fun and profit. Is there one, in your admittedly peculiar view?


It's a day's ride. I already said. Next question?

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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2010 5:08 pm 
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Methinks Lovuian was spot on with her observation of Churchy figures appearing in art works are connected with a isolated hideaway spot like Switzerland which commemorates its hermit traditions.

I always associate grotto's with cave dwellin' folk, be they saintly hermits, or Marian Apparitions. Sauniere was into this cave genre with his own hand made grotto. Maybe he was expecting a Magdalene Apparition instead, who knows?

The Sion set up could allow for hermits if there was a cave system on that hill the monastery is built on. Or else, the monks dug out their own cozy lil' abodes on that hill.

I can understand why Sandy is miffed when Roger goes tangential.


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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2010 5:27 pm 
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Roger wrote:
You already said, and I laughed appropriately, now let's have the "real reason", at least in your mind...

(Because, since your knowledge of the geography defeats you, it isn't "a day's ride" from Annemasse to Sion, not even on a tough properly mountain-trained horse)


You know we've done this before and I shot you down the last time.

171kms by road (1hr 48mins by car).

56 miles direct.

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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2010 5:41 pm 
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Roger wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'd pay to see you take those miles on your bike, in one day!


Why would Plantard do that in 1956?

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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2010 8:36 pm 
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lovuian wrote:
Writing in The Cult of the Black Virgin, Ean Begg states that

"The still popular cult of wonder-working images is not only reactionary and non-scriptural, it also evokes memories of awkward subjects best left in obscurity like the pre-Christian origins of much in Christianity, the history of the Templars, Catharism, and other heresies, and secrets concerning the Merovinginian dynasty. So, blackness in statues of the Virgin tends to be ignored and, where admitted, is attributed to the effects of candle smoke, burial, immersion or fashion's passing whim. The contention, then, of the Catholic Church is that most such statues were not originally intended to be black, and only became so by accident later." ...."If the presumed polychrome faces and hands of the Virgin and Child have been blackened by the elements however, why has their polychrome clothing not been similarly discolored? Secondly, why has a similar process not occurred in the case of other venerated images (where smoky candles were also burned nearby)?"


Begg just ticks down the list as provided in HBHG, it's too bad he felt the need to filter everything through Baigent and Leigh to get attention for his own work.

lovuian wrote:
Mary Lee Nolan, a leading scholar of European pilgrimage has noted that more than 10% of the European shrines where Black Virgins are venerated are known to have been centers of worship in pre-Christian times. Echoing this fact, other scholars see in Black Virgin veneration a continuation of pre-Christian worship of such pagan goddesses as Isis, Diana of Ephesus, Artemis, Cybele, and the Celtic deity Hecate (it is interesting to note in this regard that the great Egyptian goddess, Isis, is often shown as a nursing mother with the infant Horus god at her breast; in this image lies the origins of the Madonna and Child image).


This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about - "Isis" (who was never black in either her traditional Egyptian nor amalgamated Hellenic likenesses), "Diana of Ephesus", "Artemis" (see "Diana"), "Cybele", "Hecate" (CELTIC? On what planet?) - every single "inspiration" has to be an import in order to appeal to modern tastes, as though the indigenous western Europeans had no goddesses of their own.

lovuian wrote:
Lending still more support to the pre-Christian origin of the Black Madonnas, Begg writes that

"Again and again in the stories of the Black Virgin, a statue is found in a forest or a bush, or discovered when ploughing animals refuse to pass a certain spot. The statue is taken to the parish church, only to return miraculously by night to her own place, where a chapel is then built in her honor. Almost invariably her cult is associated with natural phenomena, especially healing waters or striking geographical features. The Romans had taken over and adapted many of the sacred sites of the Celtic world, which the Christians were later, in their turn, to sanctify, but the spirit of the place remains Celtic, and still whispers something of its origins through the cult associated with it."

It is evident from a serious study of these matters that the patriarchal Roman church in its effort to exterminate the ancient and immensely popular goddess cults had only succeeded in driving them underground. In contemporary Europe the veneration of the feminine principle and her sacred sites is once again gaining power. As Begg interprets it,

"The return of the Black Virgin to the forefront of collective consciousness has coincided with the profound psychological need to reconcile sexuality and religion."


"The profound psychological need to reconcile sexuality and religion" - there's the hook for Margaret Starbird's crowd (whose Woman With The Alabaster Jar Begg acknowledges). Isis, Diana, Cybele, Hecate (!), a new archetype for a people that Starbird and Begg assume (mistakenly) didn't have any of their own.

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2010 2:50 am 
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Roger wrote:
Quote:
Why would Plantard do that in 1956?


The only possible reason would be with the foresight that "some weirdo" would require a link between the two towns, at some time in the future.


Priory of Sion to Sion = 171kms -1hr 48mins by car

ImageImage

Chateau Valere

The pointed tower by the way is known as the Tour des Sorciers

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Last edited by roscoe on 04 Aug 2010 6:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2010 3:43 am 
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However, Begg also discusses the Priory of Sion and notes that in most records, the full name of the organization is the Order of Our Lady of Sion. He hints that that Lady might not be the Virgin Mary, Mary Magdalene, or even Isis, but instead the goddess Rosmerthe, associated with the Mount Sion found in Switzerland, and the female embodiment for the Celts of their ideal of sovereignty.

from professor Steves notes and articles
Thanks Steve for your AWESOME work
Rosemerthe ...Roseline...Ursuline

http://www2.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/priory-of-sion-more.html

Lugh is the ideal God, he can do anything, and help any man in need of it. He is also bound to his nature goddess Rosemerta, and the two are worshipped on the 30 day Lugnasad midsummer feast in Ireland. Magic that emanated from this festival contained fertile aspects that the people believed would help crops grow, and good harvest. He was called Lamfhada or 'of the long arm' in Gaelic, because of his hand-made sling, and the long great spear, he would carry to show his authority. Lugh is represented with some attributes like the sling and the spear, but also the pressence of the raven and the lynx.

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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2010 4:38 am 
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lovuian wrote:
However, Begg also discusses the Priory of Sion and notes that in most records, the full name of the organization is the Order of Our Lady of Sion. He hints that that Lady might not be the Virgin Mary, Mary Magdalene, or even Isis, but instead the goddess Rosmerthe, associated with the Mount Sion found in Switzerland, and the female embodiment for the Celts of their ideal of sovereignty.

from professor Steves notes and articles
Thanks Steve for your AWESOME work
Rosemerthe ...Roseline...Ursuline


Ursuline? If you're going the Mama Bear route, why not choose a bear goddess? Artio, or Andarte, or Andraste, for example. War goddesses, bear goddesses, raven goddesses, flyers in sky chariots.

Black Madonnas most anciently proliferate in areas of SW Gaul where Rosemerta would have been unknown, but where Andra Mari once held sway long before the arrival of Gallic-speakers.

"La Virgen Morena"...the Black Virgin... :wink:

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2010 4:59 am 
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tingra wrote:
it would be interesting to know what kind of stones our priest collected and whether he was just collecting them to build his grotto or .........

I think these stones were only on the top of his basket and below was something else which he wanted to hide. I believe the stones were a cover up.


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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2010 5:05 am 
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Sheila wrote:
Antimony has been used in gold extraction & purification for thousands of years, and when gold is removed Arsenic is left behind.....

Hands off! Working openly with antimony is extremly dangerous.
A german guy (age 50 and friend of a friend) who was into alchemy died after working with some bigger amounts.

:cry:


Last edited by Eginolf on 04 Aug 2010 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2010 6:29 am 
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Eginolf wrote:
Sheila wrote:
Antimony has been used in gold extraction & purification for thousands of years, and when gold is removed Arsenic is left behind.....

Hands off! Working with antimony is extremly dangerous. A german guy (age 50 and friend of a friend) who was into alchemy died because of that.


It's in microchips, without it we wouldn't be talking to each other.

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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2010 8:20 am 
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What purpose does the notion of a Black madonna serve?. I came across this link which attempts to deal with this quandry.

http://mintwiki.pbworks.com/f/The+Genes ... adonna.pdf

It is not a resolved response, not by a long shot. The author obviously don't realize a common error here. When pear wood is used as a statue, paints were used for clothing and other decor, but hands and exposed skin areas were left un painted, when the wood is exposed to smoking lit votive candles, over time the 'exposed' wood turns black.

The article author wondered why the paint didn't turn black as well. Therein lies the problem of making gigantic leaps of belief without knowing why. This type of flawed error based conclusion jumping is prevalent here on the forum as well. Roger+ his krew have been dumping lots of unsubstantiated, undocumented IMHO's in many a thread and get incensed when challenged for proof.

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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2010 4:11 pm 
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Yes Hugo the blackness of the wood is a good question...it shows that their the explanations of exposure to the candles may not be the right answer

The Gnostic Tree of Life
Image

what does Rosemerte carry the cup filled with plenty ...the Rose Mother
the Rose ...the Flower of Life


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Flower-of-Life-small.svg/200px-Flower-of-Life-small.svg.png
it is believed to contain a type of Akashic Record of basic information of all living things
Isn't that cup filled with the greatest treasure of all

Plantard said there was schism in the Order of Sion with the American side of the Priory
of which he patched it up with them later(so he said)

the American side ...may not have been happy at all with Plantard

and TCP
You have this fascination with Andra Mari ....she is pretty cool ..Basque goddess
The Black Mari and I can see your point...

Sauniere and his brother were educated men and traveled ....the roses are everywhere in the chapel

Many Secret Societies use the Rose as a symbol and for good reason
and for the Shepherds who are not educated

It is the Rose Mother that is being seen in the Apparitions or Visions Our Lady

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Last edited by lovuian on 04 Aug 2010 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2010 4:29 pm 
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Yo Roger, you bein' the self-proclaimed expert of all experts, tell us what it was like living in Jura-assic Park, the 'hood ya grew up in, back at the time Sion in Switzerland was getting built. Did everybody have piped in steam heat, wall-to-wall carpeting, a 2-chariot garage, etc.

Get real Roger, the average man in the street of that time built a dwelling with materials at hand. A cave was easier to come by, yes?

Yer the only person who lacks the perspicacity to make intelligible posts. Personal attacks ya make here are hardly what happened then. Yer gettin' yer time warps confused again, as usual. Stay on topic and park yer personal agenda in its proper pm slot.

This observation I made is 'fact' and you know it Roger. be man 'nuff to face it and do sumfin positive to correct it instead of de rigger( de rigeur) personal attack. ...This type of flawed error based conclusion jumping is prevalent here on the forum as well. Roger+ his krew have been dumping lots of unsubstantiated, undocumented IMHO's in many a thread and get incensed when challenged for proof.

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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2010 6:55 pm 
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Temple of Osiris in Abydos, Egypt contained the oldest known examples of the Flower of Life
Image

over 6,000 years old

the Temple of Seti

the Table of Abydos, re-discovered by William John Bankes, has been called the "Rosetta Stone" of Egyptian archaeology, analogous to the Rosetta Stone for Egyptian writing, beyond the Narmer Palette.[2]

the flower of life is located at Masada also linked to Kabbalah
Leonardo Da Vinci
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the Rose

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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2010 9:57 pm 
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I wonder when RS will get back from his vacation and check up in his latest DSM 4 Statistical Manual and find what classification Roger's malady comes under. Roger has been makin' all sorts of disconnected bizarre responses lately that have zero-zip-zilch to do with the topic at hand, bur only are some sort of odd retort that in a way defies classification as to how serious the underlying mental-psychic disorder is. I mean that in all seriousness Roger, ya need professional help real bad dude.

I ain't sayin' this to mock ya, its from too may years of witnessing this sort of breakdown. All I asked was for a detailed every day life existence of an average person living under the conditions at that Sion location when that place was bein' set up. That is a very straight forward query that needs a local expert with 1st hand knowledge. Ya didn't even come close to addressing a single point.

Its this type of mundane 'thang' ya don't like to be asked, I know that from experience, that is why I use it. I want a reality check of those times, not an excuse. If ya don't know, and can't find out, say so. That is an honest response I can deal with. Roscoe demo'd in his response that ya mis-judged the distance that could be covered in a single day.

Yer havin' a string of bad hair daze dude, it happens to us mere mortals of the forum as well. The hint here is, don't be so quick to condemn, don't attack over silly trivia. I ask 'cuz I have no way of knowin' what the terrain is like at Sion, nor the temp differences from season to season.

Yes I have been to many places in Switzerland. I wouldn't wanna live in nor visit again, mainly due to cost. My middle name ain't Rockefeller. The Swiss ain't zakly very friendly chit-chatty folk.

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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2010 4:28 am 
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speaking of snakes and Rosemertha's connection with them
Have you noticed the designs on them
How beautiful they are
Image

Serpents are represented as potent guardians of temples and other sacred spaces
they are natural guardians of treasures or sacred sites which cannot easily be moved out of harm's way.

Because of its herbal knowledge and entheogenic association the snake was often considered one of the wisest animals, being (close to the) divine. Its divine aspect combined with its habitat in the earth between the roots of plants made it an animal with chthonic properties connected to the afterlife and immortality.

the snake could be a symbol for earth energy

In the ancient Indian and Far Eastern
cultures the earth energies (BEM grid
radiations and radiations of underground
streams of water, faults in the earth, cavities
below surface, etc.,) were all graphically
represented by snakes. Garuda holding
snakes under each claw and not allowing the
snakes to mingle or cross, signified mastery
over these earth energies. The ancient
Chinese and Tibetans symbolised these earth
energies by dragons; and some ancient
European cultures by wyverns.
http://www.sivananda.org/publications/yogalife/fall2003/pdfs/page49-mysterious-energies.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Sion, Switzerland
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2010 9:23 am 
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Roger, do ya want me to regale ya with an episode that happened to a Swedish atomic physicist-researcher at CERN? it don't make for good publicity for yer beloved Swissies. If any 'thang' it demo's a vicious antisocial side to them.

They are a very humorless, droll krowd who love to get into persecution mode, just like you do all the time. I perceive Switzerland as an entity consisting of hi-stressed greedy-graspin' materialists who have a remarkable predilection toward borderline personality, just like the Swedes. It takes very lil' in the manner of a stressful situation to see the psych meltdown, just like yer last comment.

BTW, what ever happened to yer expert description of life in Sion way back when? It has a definitive impact on te topic, 'cuz it may well shed light as to why the Swiss behave the way they do today.

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