Arcadia Discussion Zone

The most interesting account relating to Bérenger Saunière came from a Monsieur Espeut, relating to his activities of the 1920s:

"...I would like to state that the Abbé Saunière never found any treasure. You see, I was actually born in Espéraza. My family knew the Dénarnaud family. In 1925, when I was 14 years old, I used to go up regularly to Rennes-le-Château. I used to go and see Marie Dénarnaud. She was living in rather pitiable circumstances. I did my harmony lessons on the organs in the salon, which have now disappeared. In the library of the Tour Magdala, I read all the correspondence of the priest with his ecclesiastical lawyer at the time of his trial at the court of Rome. It was by collecting money for saying masses that the Abbé Saunière was able to construct his estate. He published small ads in the Catholic press throughout the world. I was able to read their texts, and I have seen thousands of replies".(Midi Libre, 13 February, 1973).

How many times does Paul have to post the same thing for it to qualify as spam? So far, it's been 31 times. just enter the word "Libre" in the search function.

Definite sign of a beaten frustrated man. He has become so predictable.

The most interesting account relating to Bérenger Saunière came from a Monsieur Espeut, relating to his activities of the 1920s:

"...I would like to state that the Abbé Saunière never found any treasure. You see, I was actually born in Espéraza. My family knew the Dénarnaud family. In 1925, when I was 14 years old, I used to go up regularly to Rennes-le-Château. I used to go and see Marie Dénarnaud. She was living in rather pitiable circumstances. I did my harmony lessons on the organs in the salon, which have now disappeared. In the library of the Tour Magdala, I read all the correspondence of the priest with his ecclesiastical lawyer at the time of his trial at the court of Rome. It was by collecting money for saying masses that the Abbé Saunière was able to construct his estate. He published small ads in the Catholic press throughout the world. I was able to read their texts, and I have seen thousands of replies".(Midi Libre, 13 February, 1973).

Yes we've seen this before haven't we chaps?

The most interesting account relating to Bérenger Saunière came from a Monsieur Espeut, relating to his activities of the 1920s:

"...I would like to state that the Abbé Saunière never found any treasure. You see, I was actually born in Espéraza. My family knew the Dénarnaud family. In 1925, when I was 14 years old, I used to go up regularly to Rennes-le-Château. I used to go and see Marie Dénarnaud. She was living in rather pitiable circumstances. I did my harmony lessons on the organs in the salon, which have now disappeared. In the library of the Tour Magdala, I read all the correspondence of the priest with his ecclesiastical lawyer at the time of his trial at the court of Rome. It was by collecting money for saying masses that the Abbé Saunière was able to construct his estate. He published small ads in the Catholic press throughout the world. I was able to read their texts, and I have seen thousands of replies".(Midi Libre, 13 February, 1973).

What happened to this part, paul?

Quote:
I would also like to state that, between the ages of 15 and 20, I thoroughly searched the area within a 500-metre radius of the Villa and the Tour Magdala. I never found the slightest evidence of a hidden treasure. I am telling you this out of respect for the truth..." (Midi Libre, 13 February, 1973).


Why'd you cut that part out? Oh, right, because that part indicates that Monsieur Espeut had some reason to think there might be a treasure within 500 meters of the Villa Bethania or the Tour Magdala. What do you suppose would have given him THAT idea considering it was about 30 years before Noel Corbu "made up the swhole RLC mystery", according to Paul Smith. In other words, the quote disproves Smith's whole thesis about the RLC lost treasure mystery not predating the 1950s. Monsieur Espeut searched for the treasure between 1926 and 1930. Smith is so mentally defective that he actually thinks that cutting that part out of all his posts of the quote will make it go away. Too bad Roscoe had already quoted that line in HIS post, which Smith can't edit.

The most interesting account relating to Bérenger Saunière came from a Monsieur Espeut, relating to his activities of the 1920s:

"...I would like to state that the Abbé Saunière never found any treasure. You see, I was actually born in Espéraza. My family knew the Dénarnaud family. In 1925, when I was 14 years old, I used to go up regularly to Rennes-le-Château. I used to go and see Marie Dénarnaud. She was living in rather pitiable circumstances. I did my harmony lessons on the organs in the salon, which have now disappeared. In the library of the Tour Magdala, I read all the correspondence of the priest with his ecclesiastical lawyer at the time of his trial at the court of Rome. It was by collecting money for saying masses that the Abbé Saunière was able to construct his estate. He published small ads in the Catholic press throughout the world. I was able to read their texts, and I have seen thousands of replies".(Midi Libre, 13 February, 1973).

Your game's up, Smith. You just provided evidence that there was a Rennes-le-Chateau treasure mystery in the 1920s.
Now you either have to rework your whole thesis or be picked apart by anyone who sees this forum. You will never be able to use that "Noel Corbu was the first person to mention a RLC treasure" line again, without being laughed at and called a mental defective who doesn't even understand the implications of what he reads.
Now post it again and leave no doubt whatsoever. Here, I'll save you the trouble.



Too bad Smith doesn't have "respect for the truth", but attempts to hide it.

Brian, you're forgetting Paul's greatest talent, that being his ability to completely ignore anything and everything that doesn't fit his desired conclusions. He has already shown his willingness to selectively report, edit, and falsify information, in an effort to discourage people from following this story. So I doubt this further proof of his deceitful practices will slow him down any.

Diocese of Carcassonne, 18 December 1909

Dear Mr Saunière,
The Superior of Hôpital St. Joseph, located at 7 rue Pierre-
Larousse, Paris, has written to Monsignor the Bishop to ask him if
she could, with a clear conscience, send you fees for saying Mass.
You will no doubt be able to guess the contents of the reply that he
has sent to her:
"Take great care that you do not continue to send him such fees; we
have no confidence in the manner in which this priest carries out
these mass intentions, which he procures wherever he can. "
Monsignor the Bishop notes with regret that you are continuing to
ask outside the Diocese for fees for Masses, even though you
promised and insisted that, henceforward, you would never again ask
anyone for such fees except the Bishop alone, personally.
So this is how you keep your promise!
His Grace is asking himself whether his conscience does not require
him to take effective measures to put a stop to such a deplorable
course of conduct,
Most sincerely,
H. Rodière
Diocese of Carcassonne



Diocese of Carcassonne, 22 December 1909
Dear Abbé Saunière,
You state that, ever since the promise that you made to Monsignor
the Bishop, you have ceased to ask for fees from the Superior of
Hôpital St. Joseph in Paris. Here is what she wrote to us on 28
October last... "While he was still the Curé of Rennes-le-Château,
Abbé Saunière wrote to me without knowing me (he had obtained my
address from somebody or other) asking me to obtain for him some
fees for Masses... He wrote to me recently to say that he was now a
Priest in Retirement but would be remaining in his former Parish and
could still perform the mass intentions that are sent to him. As I
do not have the advantage of knowing him I would be very grateful if
you would tell me if one could with a clear conscience send him fees
for Masses. "
Here we have two apparently contradictory statements.
Monsignor the Bishop would be very grateful if you would kindly
inform him which of them is the truth,
Most sincerely,
H. Rodiére
Vicar General
Diocese of Carcassonne



Diocese of Carcassonne, 12 May 1910
Dear Abbé,
Here is the text of the reply which Monsignor the Bishop has asked
me to send to Madame Gabrielle Camus, of Faubourg des Vosges,
Mirecourt, who asked me if she could send fees for Masses with a
clear conscience:
Madam,
"Take great care that you do not continue to send fees for Masses to
Abbé Saunière, former Curé of Rennes-le-Château, and now retired in
this Parish, because Monsignor the Bishop has no confidence on that
score in the manner in which this priest carries out these mass
intentions".
His Grace notes with regret that you are not keeping the formal
promise which you made, which was to approach him alone when you
were short of fees,
Most sincerely,
H. Rodière
Vicar General
Diocese of Carcassonne

Jean-Jacques Bedu
Rennes-le-Château, Autopsie d'un mythe (1990)

In fact we know that, apart from the ‘Semaine Religieuse’, Bérenger Saunière also placed ads in ‘La Croix’, ‘L’Eclair’, ‘L’Express du Midi’, ‘L’Univers’ and ‘Le Télégramme’.

We should also note that his little notebook contains a double page entitled: ‘addresses for ads’. We were thus able to discover the addresses of some of the publications to which he sent small ads asking for masses or donations.

Here are two examples:

- ‘L’Echo de la Semaine’, an illustrated weekly published by Victor Tissot, rue Laffite 34, Paris.

- ‘Le Musée des enfants’, a monthly magazine, published at rue de Metz 41, Lille.

Through these small ads he solicited masses from private individuals. These people, for various reasons (deaths, prayers for a particular event or a loved one) sent him a large number of mass requests.

On the other hand he also wrote to colleagues, who also sent him a very large number.

Here’s a short list of selected names:

At - Reynes - Cazanove - Lignon - Carrière - Pech-Caurres - Estruc - Greffier - Pech (namesake) - Prax-Sabaties - Bonnata - Lauze - Cazaux - Larroque - Hugonnet - Lafon May - Henry-Babou - Jalabert - Partau - Roudière - Frances - Rovière - Bourgignon - Goutharet - Lapeyre - Delmas - Valentin - Cavaye-Gayda - Gasdtillon - Babat - Boue - Alquier - Sarda - Cassignol-Vidal - Pons - Laborde - Marty - Guilhem (Diocesan Secretary) - Gazel - Boudel (Curé of Rennes-les-Bains) - Boutel-Mario - Gasc - Cathala - Daviez - Cavailhe - Caratge - Taillan - Escarguel - Lasserre - Cazal - Sarda - Carrie - Salomon - Cantier - Bonnaure - Cantegril - Sige - Puzenac - Michet - Arryles - Marthe - Maury - Boscat - Sabran - Bellinans - Alfred Saunière - Alquie - Boussioux - Vignoles - Dantras - Bernard-Corves - Ribes - Laval.....

We’re not going to list the private individuals because that list is even longer. But there too the technique was the same. Each month he would write to some of them to ask them for mass requests. His address book was so well filled that he used a sort of rotation system so that he wasn’t always pestering the same people. We should, however, point out that this was just a short list of names of people in the Diocese of Carcassonne and environs. We know that he actually wrote to people all over France; there’s a list of the towns (written in his own hand) in which he maintained a correspondence with the local priests, congregations or private individuals.

This obviously means that he had rather a large amount of mail to write. Perhaps he had a standard letter that he asked Marie to recopy. All he had to do then was date and sign it, which obviously made the task easy for him.

We will never cease to reiterate that Bérenger Saunière had set up a genuine ‘industry’, the results of which, in our opinion, he was eventually unable to control.

Once the ‘mechanism’ was in place, he had no need to keep pestering people - everything was done automatically: when someone wanted to send mass requests it was always to Bérenger Saunière, the curé of Rennes-le-Château.

All this is very clear, but did Saunière actually have the means to say all these masses? The answer is obviously ‘No’, and here’s the proof:

Priests, when they received masses, had the right to say an absolute maximum of three a day (this figure is contested by some people, who reduce it to 1 for weekdays and 2 for Sundays or feast days). Starting from this assumption it’s a simple matter to calculate that, even if he had spent his whole life saying masses, it would have been impossible for him to meet the conditions referred to above. On this point we are in agreement with Gérard de Sède; he would certainly have to have performed a real ‘liturgical marathon’. In the absence of such a liturgical marathon we are obviously dealing with trafficking in masses on an unprecedented scale.

The proof is to be found in his notebooks for the month of January 1894, the 9th January to be precise. He notes ‘Stopped there’ and draws a line that will prove to be final. Never again will he fill in the fifth column, where he regrouped the masses in threes, showing that they had been said. It should be noted that, at this date, he was in the process of saying masses that dated back to September 1893, or five months in arrears. At the beginning of the same notebook we find him up to ten months in arrears. That means that in July 1893 he was saying masses requested in May 1892!

http://bsmotta.planetaclix.pt/imgd/cidades1.jpg

http://bsmotta.planetaclix.pt/imgd/cidades2.jpg

http://bsmotta.planetaclix.pt/imgd/correspondencia1.jpg

http://bsmotta.planetaclix.pt/imgd/correspondencia2.jpg

http://bsmotta.planetaclix.pt/imgd/correspondencia3.jpg

http://bsmotta.planetaclix.pt/imgd/correspondencia4.jpg

http://bsmotta.planetaclix.pt/imgd/missas1.jpg

http://bsmotta.planetaclix.pt/imgd/missas2.jpg

http://bsmotta.planetaclix.pt/imgd/missas3.jpg

http://bsmotta.planetaclix.pt/imgd/missas4.jpg

http://bsmotta.planetaclix.pt/imgd/missas5.jpg

Jean-Jacques Bedu
Rennes-le-Château, Autopsie d'un mythe (1990)


It should be noted that, in 1988, de Sède was still fiercely denying the hypothesis of trafficking in masses, which is really quite astonishing when one considers his previous writings. We know that Bérenger Saunière received a large number of postal orders and letters each and every day. Here are quotations from some of them:

‘I’m enclosing the sum of two hundred and fifty francs, amounting to two hundred and fifty separate fees for masses at 1 franc each, 124 of them to be said for our deceased sisters.’ (Clair Corbu and Antoine Captier, ‘L’héritage de l’abbé Saunière’, p182)

And another letter:

‘I’m enclosing a postal order for 45 francs for 30 masses which I would like you to say subsequent to those that I requested from you on 1 August: I commend especially to your prayers my dear little soldier and my poor husband.’ (Clair Corbu and Antoine Captier, ‘L’héritage de l’abbé Saunière’, p184)

From Sister Thault:

‘Having once again some masses to distribute for our Reverend Mother, I have the honour of enclosing a new postal order for 16 francs for masses to be said on behalf of this dear departed. She was always happy to send on to you those that Sister Eulalie entrusted to her for you.’ (Pierre Jarnac, ‘Histoire du trésor…’ p340)

Letter from Saunière asking a religious house for masses, postcards, stamps and other objects which he was collecting. It should be noted that, at this time, he was under suspension, though this does not seem to have stopped him from touting for mass fees.

+ Rennes-le-Château via Couiza, Aude
27 May 1913


Monsieur l’Abbé Saunière, after presenting his compliments to the Reverend Mother and to the venerable company of the Convent of the Rue du Commune, was pleased to acknowledged receipt of the large parcel of postcards and postmarked stamps, despatch of which had previously been announced in her kind letter of 22 May and, on behalf of the little works that he is currently undertaking, and which are so dear to him, was pleased to thank her for her kind gift which he has found particularly welcome, and which arrived in the best possible condition thanks to the excellent idea she had had of placing the contents inside a stitched linen bag. After closely examining the postcards, which were found to be quite clean, very pretty and extremely interesting and genuinely artistic, and this huge collection of stamps, which are so varied and cover several important and out-of-the-way subjects, Abbé Saunière is happy to assure the Reverend Mother that he will continue his prayers and mementoes at the sacred altar for her and her community, for the preservation of their health and for the continuation of their good works as well as for all the spiritual and temporal needs of their Convent,

Signed: B. Saunière, priest

Many thanks in advance for the fees for the masses that you have suggested and for sending them to me as soon as the opportunity presents itself. I will receive them with the very greatest gratitude.

NB: If, by any chance, you know of any other convents that, following the example of your own house, would be only too happy to send me postcards and postmarked stamps, then I would be very grateful if you would give them my address (which you will find below and which I am also putting on a separate sheet of paper to send to people whom you judge worthy of it). Apologies for the inconvenience and thanks in advance.

My address is:
Monsieur l’Abbé Saunière, retired priest at Rennes-le-Château via Couiza, Aude
Railway station: Couiza – Montazels

The most interesting account relating to Bérenger Saunière came from a Monsieur Espeut, relating to his activities of the 1920s:

"...I would like to state that the Abbé Saunière never found any treasure. You see, I was actually born in Espéraza. My family knew the Dénarnaud family. In 1925, when I was 14 years old, I used to go up regularly to Rennes-le-Château. I used to go and see Marie Dénarnaud. She was living in rather pitiable circumstances. I did my harmony lessons on the organs in the salon, which have now disappeared. In the library of the Tour Magdala, I read all the correspondence of the priest with his ecclesiastical lawyer at the time of his trial at the court of Rome. It was by collecting money for saying masses that the Abbé Saunière was able to construct his estate. He published small ads in the Catholic press throughout the world. I was able to read their texts, and I have seen thousands of replies".(Midi Libre, 13 February, 1973).

The most interesting account relating to Bérenger Saunière came from a Monsieur Espeut, relating to his activities of the 1920s:


"...I would like to state that the Abbé Saunière never found any treasure. You see, I was actually born in Espéraza. My family knew the Dénarnaud family. In 1925, when I was 14 years old, I used to go up regularly to Rennes-le-Château. I used to go and see Marie Dénarnaud. She was living in rather pitiable circumstances. I did my harmony lessons on the organs in the salon, which have now disappeared. In the library of the Tour Magdala, I read all the correspondence of the priest with his ecclesiastical lawyer at the time of his trial at the court of Rome. It was by collecting money for saying masses that the Abbé Saunière was able to construct his estate. He published small ads in the Catholic press throughout the world. I was able to read their texts, and I have seen thousands of replies".(Midi Libre, 13 February, 1973).

Yes Smith is well known for his selective use of quotes.

I may have added a few words to the quote. I was indicating what I thought Paul would be thinking.

I don't think Smith bothers to read our responses you know. He's in full retreat and all he does now is see who posted the last response and selects a cut and paste from his website which has nothing to do with our response.

I reckon we can play games with him.

The most interesting account relating to Bérenger Saunière came from a Monsieur Espeut, relating to his activities of the 1920s:

"...I would like to state that the Abbé Saunière never found any treasure. You see, I was actually born in Espéraza. My family knew the Dénarnaud family. In 1925, when I was 14 years old, I used to go up regularly to Rennes-le-Château. I used to go and see Marie Dénarnaud. She was living in rather pitiable circumstances. I did my harmony lessons on the organs in the salon, which have now disappeared. In the library of the Tour Magdala, I read all the correspondence of the priest with his ecclesiastical lawyer at the time of his trial at the court of Rome. It was by collecting money for saying masses that the Abbé Saunière was able to construct his estate. He published small ads in the Catholic press throughout the world. I was able to read their texts, and I have seen thousands of replies".(Midi Libre, 13 February, 1973).

You're right, Roscoe. Paul is now unable to do anything more complicated than hit Ctrl-V. His mental disabledness is at its height.

The most interesting account relating to Bérenger Saunière came from a Monsieur Espeut, relating to his activities of the 1920s:

"...I would like to state that the Abbé Saunière never found any treasure. You see, I was actually born in Espéraza. My family knew the Dénarnaud family. In 1925, when I was 14 years old, I used to go up regularly to Rennes-le-Château. I used to go and see Marie Dénarnaud. She was living in rather pitiable circumstances. I did my harmony lessons on the organs in the salon, which have now disappeared. In the library of the Tour Magdala, I read all the correspondence of the priest with his ecclesiastical lawyer at the time of his trial at the court of Rome. It was by collecting money for saying masses that the Abbé Saunière was able to construct his estate. He published small ads in the Catholic press throughout the world. I was able to read their texts, and I have seen thousands of replies".(Midi Libre, 13 February, 1973).