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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2010 8:53 pm 
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oh no..... dont encourage him FFS :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2010 8:53 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2010 9:45 pm 
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Roger, if ya recall I made mention by way of IMHO the kabala-gnostics were behind all of these protestant set ups 'cuz te rabbi claimed that to be the case.

In the Sr Emmerich situation she never sez my take is...this is what Jesus mean this is what Peter meant, etc. She was describing an unfolding drama, she was not instituting a new brand of Catholicism in the 1820s when she described what she experienced.

Its not like the muhammed bit where an angel told muhammed what to write and then send muhammed out on a jihad. Methinks, Roger yer gettin' things all mixed up here. Are ya OK?, is it a pre-senility 'thang' ya gotta deal with now? Sr Emmerich is definitely not the acknowledged leader of a brand new schismatic sect. Same applies to Sr Faustina from Poland.

In fact Roger, the only stigmatic who set up anything like an organization to the best of my knowledge was St Francis the mendicant friar. Padre Pio didn't set up an independent sect, neither did Theresa Neumann. I will have to go thru the list of recognized stigmatics to see if anybody else set up an Order besides St Francis.

What is more intriguing is why hasn't any mention of this Crista 'thang' ever come out from French sources like John Vianney or Marie-Louise Jahenny? Its has never once been brought up in a Marian Apparition on French soil, how come?

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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2010 2:26 pm 
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It was neither parliaments nor populations, nor the course of nature nor the course of events, that overthrew the throne of Louis Philippe. Amid one of those discontents which are appeased by the sacrifice of a favourite or the change of a ministry, the sovereign and the subjects both in confusion, the king deprived of his wonted energy by a prostrating illness and the citizens murmuring without convictions, the throne was surprised by the secret societies, ever prepared to ravage Europe.

The origin of the secret societies that prevail in Europe is very remote. It is probable that they were originally confederations of conquered races organized in a great measure by the abrogated hierachies. In Italy they have never ceased, although they have at times been obliged to take various forms; sometimes it was literary academy, sometimes a charitable brotherhood; freemasonry was always a convenient guise. The Inquistion in its great day boasted that it had extirpated them in Spain, but their activity in that country after the first French revolution rather indicates a suspension of vitality than an extinction of life. The reformation gave them a great impulse in Germany, and towards the middle of the eighteenth century, they had not only spread in every portion of the north of that region but had crossed the Rhine.

The two charateristics of these confederations, which now cover Europe like a network, are war against property and hatred of the Semitic revelation. These are the legacies of their founders; a propietary despoiled and the servants of altars that have been overthrown. Alone, the secret societies can disturb, but they cannot control, Europe. Acting in unison with a great popular movement they may destroy society, as the did at the end of the last century. The French disturbance of '48 was not a great popular movement. It was a discontent which required nothing more for its solution that a change of ministry: but the sovereign and his subjects were in sudden confusion; the secret associations are always vigilant and always prepare; they took society by surprise, but having nothing really to rely upone except their own resources, the movement however disastrous has been an abortion.

It is the manoeuvres of these men, who are striking at property and Christ, which the good people of this country, who are so accumulative and so religious, recognise and applaud as the progress of the liberal cause.


Disraeli
Lord George Bentinck, A Political Biography (London, 1852), pp.553-4

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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2010 2:45 pm 
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Nor was it only in his books that Disraeli had harped on the secret societies. In 1856 he warned the House of Commons of the dangers of encouraging revolution in Italy because of the readiness of the secret societies to take advantage of disorder both there and in France. No doubt his experience of the Fenians in the 1860s helped to confirm his views. As late as 1876, when he was Prime Minister and knew that great attention would be given to his words, after decades of political experience and years of cabinet office, he again spoke about them in public.


P21 The Mythology of the Secret Societies, J.M. Roberts. 2008

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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2010 3:32 pm 
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Politics and religion and why leaders make the decisions they do to either hide the truth or utilise it.
The same considerations no doubt given to people whom had knowledge the Crista and either hid the truth and/or used it throughout the centuries.
Mainly for the following sentence because it indicates disraeli may have known of the schism and of an opposing belief and disapproved.
Although it is not overt that he knew of the crista, it does indicate he knew of circumstances surrounding it.


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The two charateristics of these confederations, which now cover Europe like a network, are war against property and hatred of the Semitic revelation.


*I feel in part a sense of betrayal on the part of history but rather than turn away I wish to examine the subject of the Crista in an objective manner therefore in order to this I feel I must examine the rationality of those who played their part in its hidden existence and their reasons for doing so. I can then better grasp in a less subjective manner the truth, no matter how challenging to my core beliefs that may be.

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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2010 6:57 pm 
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rain wrote:
Politics and religion and why leaders make the decisions they do to either hide the truth or utilise it.
The same considerations no doubt given to people whom had knowledge the Crista and either hid the truth and/or used it throughout the centuries.
Mainly for the following sentence because it indicates disraeli may have known of the schism and of an opposing belief and disapproved.
Although it is not overt that he knew of the crista, it does indicate he knew of circumstances surrounding it.


Quote:
The two charateristics of these confederations, which now cover Europe like a network, are war against property and hatred of the Semitic revelation.


*I feel in part a sense of betrayal on the part of history but rather than turn away I wish to examine the subject of the Crista in an objective manner therefore in order to this I feel I must examine the rationality of those who played their part in its hidden existence and their reasons for doing so. I can then better grasp in a less subjective manner the truth, no matter how challenging to my core beliefs that may be.


Rain if you want to study this in order you should go back to the beginning, go over the previous posts above to Radegund, Fortunatus, Childebert, king Wamba, Constantine etc :D
If you can understand the political, temporal and spiritual situation in which they all lived at that time in history you will understand the implications of an object such as the crista/labarum and its legends and how that same object was still important to our enigmatic priest.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2010 9:40 pm 
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From what I gather from Rain's post is that the crista phenomenon was a 'controlled set up', yes? it just didn't fallout of the sky like manna from heaven, or did it? The folks who controlled this phenomena before Constantine's time, did they conjure it up for Constantine? if not, then how come all of a sudden it should pop up as so important to Sauniere and not to any other notable who spoke of its efficacy openly?

The blending of myth - folklore of antiquity prior to Jesus' time, then to have it be so meaningful to Constantine than lay sort of dormant 'til Sauniere has it tangibly is really pushin' the credulity button here, yes?

Rain's use of Disraeli after I mentioned how Disraeli fits in to the overall kabala-gnostic scheme of things is not just happenstance, yes? He was definitely alluding to this krowd, yes? How else, and who else kept him so well informed for him to be able to stay in power so long?. The Vatican was the only other act in town that could match the intel capabilities of the kabala-gnostic krowd, yes? If ya notice Disraeli agrees with what the rabbi sez.

Now I will ask Tingra this, its my usual QUI BONO query, ... who has demo'd by some known historical instance that possession of this 'crista' did what its purported to have done? Just zakly why it happened+ and to whom? To talk 'boot this mysterious phenomenon and not have it surface is akin to asking how SISU works for a Finn. If yer not familiar with SISU its an all-encompassing trait-phenomena specific to Finns, according to their take of it. It ain't chutzpah yet it is what chutzpah strives to attain. it ain't the proverbial luck of the Irish when it comes to cheatin' the hang man. It ain't bein' macho, 'cuz it ain't a vain glorious attribute, yet the results surpass any macho posturing, so with this type of a description to delineate the source of the mental courage, stiffness of spine, indefagitable endurance involved in SISU, I still haven't come to its spiritual core, which ain't got nuthin' to do with religion.

Its this elusiveness in bein' able to pinpoint what can define SISU is the same difficulty in definin' the crista, yes? The difference bein' every Finn get its by virtue of birth, which ain't the case for the crista, ys?

In this regard IMHO Rain has brought up a very valid view point here, yes?

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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2010 3:23 am 
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Tingra:
Quote:
Rain if you want to study this in order you should go back to the beginning, go over the previous posts above to Radegund, Fortunatus, Childebert, king Wamba, Constantine etc
If you can understand the political, temporal and spiritual situation in which they all lived at that time in history you will understand the implications of an object such as the crista/labarum and its legends and how that same object was still important to our enigmatic priest.


Thank-you Tingra for your help, I have been slowly looking at Poitiers because of Radegund, Fortunatus and it seems a bit of a hot bed.
Of course Childebert, King Wamba, and I found the Constantine's itinery after he left the fair of Lendit in an article and posting by Sandy.

Again thank-you for your help, it's just a bit of slow going at the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2010 6:51 pm 
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Dagobert's Basilica - Saint Denis

The name and fame of the cathedral are derived from the abbey founded by Dagobert on the spot where, according to tradition, Saint-Denis halted his fateful march, from the summit of Montmartre, and was interred.

The epoch of the founder of Christianity in Paris is uncertain; ecclesiastical historians hesitate between the Ist, Ilnd, and even the IVth centuries. His origin is unknown, even, according to the sceptics, mythical. Whether he was Denis Areopagite, converted in Athens by the preaching of Saint Paul, commissioned to announce the doctrine of Christ to the Parisians, or whether he was another person of the same name sent to the Gauls about the middle of the IIIrd century and put to death during the persecution ordered by Decius has not been decided.

His history is written in monuments and popular traditions, and this history asserts and constantly reiterates that the founder and first bishop of the church of Paris was called Denis, that he was assisted in his apostolic work by the priest Rustique, and the deacon Eleuthere, and that all three sealed their accomplished mission with their blood.

Not two centuries ago there was still shown at Notre-Dame-des-Champs, at that time remote from the walls of Paris, a crypt where Saint Denis called together the first of the faithful; at Saint-Benoit a chapel built on the site of an oratory where Saint-Denis had first invoked the name of the Trinity; at Saint-Denis-de-la-Chartre, the prison where Christ came himself to fortify the confessors by administering his body and blood; at Saint-Denis-du-Pas the place where the trio suffered the first tortures; and finally the summit of Montmartre where their heads fell under the sword.

" The holy bishop Denis, and his two companions," wrote Hilduin, abbot of Saint-Denis in the IXth century, " suffered their glorious martyrdom within view of the city of the Parisians, upon a hill previously called Mount of Mercury, in honour of a god in particular favour amongst the Gauls, but thereafter known as Mount . of the Martyrs in memory of the saints who died there."

The origin of the church of Saint-Denis is subject to two interpretations. According to one a pious woman called Catulle, having assisted the three martyrs during their imprisonment, dared to gather up the mutilated remains and buried them in a field belonging to herself, later included in the possessions of the abbey of Saint-Denis. We know that long before the invasion of the Francs a basilica, superbly ornamented and famous for the miracles wrought there, was raised upon Catulle's field.

According to another version the early church succeeded a temple erected to Bacchus, while the story of Saint-Denis himself is a legend of pagan origin, the name Denis being indeed a derivative from the Greek name of the wine god, Dionysos.

The explanation is as ingenious as it is impious, and the author gives himself to its elaboration with a certain zest. Here it is:

It is well known that the country known under the name of the lie de France was once a grape-growing country. All the hills near the Seine were planted with vines and no department of France bore more fruit in proportion to its extent.

In such a country Bacchus was greatly respected. Per Bacco was a familiar oath and temples were raised to the god of wine and offerings made in the interest of the crops. As we know, most of the early Christian churches repose upon the ruins of temples or altars dedicated in remoter centuries to pagan deities. Notre-Dame covers the foundation of an altar raised to a nautical divinity, Saint-Germain-des-Pres stands upon the site of a temple to Isis, Saint-Pierre-de-Montmartre succeeds Mercury, and Saint-Denis displaces Bacchus.

Our impious author leaves nothing unaccounted for. Rustique and Eleuthere, the companions of Saint-Denis, he figures to have been created out of the supposed legend of the temple: Dionysio Rustico Eleuthero—Dionysio Frenchified becomes Denys or Denis; Rustico, because his altar was in the country; and Eleuthero or free, one of the surnames of Bacchus.

Along comes Christianity to the Gauls and the peasants receive the new faith but hold instinctively to the old traditions of paganism, and myths become mysteries. To form an alliance between the old beliefs—vague, effaced, but persistent, was easy to a clever pious legendary. He invents a martyr, canonizes the pagan divinity, while for the legend of Saint-Denis' miraculous march from Montmartre to the site of the cathedral, this be-comes simply the glorified history of the god over-come by wine, who loses his head yet carries it with him.

Be that as it may the first edifice erected in honour of the first bishop of Paris fell into ruins in the Vth century and Sainte-Genevieve rebuilt it, while Gregoire de Tours describes the miracles worked in this temple for the cure of pilgrims and the chastisement of sinners.

The magnificence with which Dagobert rebuilt and invested the church and abbey quite casts the memory of the earliest constructions into the shade. Despite his ferocity, this last powerful Merovingien had the sentiment of art, but, as founder of religious monuments or as sovereign, his penchant for rapacity always breaks out. Thus to adorn Saint-Denis he carried off innumerable riches and ornaments from other sacred edifices, as his predecessors had done before him, contributing to the glories of the treasure his pious thefts.

In spite of all his vices Fredegonde's grandson was a popular king. It is to be presumed that, in his large way, he had qualities of the heart, and his name lives in many an old song, as le bon roi Dagobert, as well as that of his companion, Saint-Eloy, the king's artistic goldsmith, who by a set of chances as curious as those which befell the naif Koko became, as we have seen, treasurer, diplomat, bishop, founder of monasteries, saint!

From the beginning of his reign Dagobert undertook the rebuilding of the church. He deco-rated it with precious marbles, magnificent tapes-tries, bronze doors, vases of gold set with jewels. Saint-Eloy chiselled with his own hands the tomb of the martyrs and the great gold cross erected before the entrance to the choir, and, in order that so handsome a monument should have a dedication worthy of it, says tradition, Jesus Christ himself, surrounded by a glorious company of saints and martyrs assisted at the celebration. In one of the chapels the place is still shown, upon request, where the divine cortege made entrance into the basilica of Dagobert.

After Dagobert there were restorations by Pepin and Charlemagne, restoraticns almost completely obliterated, presumably by the terrible disasters following the Norman invasion and the civil wars of Charlemagne's reign, for, during the interval between Charlemagne and Louis VII the church probably shared the fate of most of the monasteries of northern France, though no actual account has been preserved. The architecture of the central part of the crypt—its round arches and historic capitals—indicate the reconstructions of the XIth century, while of the vaunted magnificence of the church of Dagobert and the early Carlovingiens no material souvenirs remain except a few columns and marble capitals, s Landing upright against the walls of the crypt.

About the year 1091 a lad of poor parentage entered the abbey of Saint-Denis. This was Suger, destined to become in his mature years abbot of the monastery and famous as ecclesiastic, statesman, and historian. Louis VI was his pupil and he was the friend and counsellor of both Louis VI and Louis VII.

Immediately upon his appointment to the government of the abbey he put into action his long cherished ambition to rebuild the cathedral upon a scale of magnificence of which we still see in the existing church many evidences. He built rapidly the portail, the tower, the choir, the nave, and finally the lower chapels of the chevet and the apse which surmounts them. This work antedated Notre-Dame by about a quarter of a century.

Suger superintended everything—the quarrying of the stone, the choice of the woods, the design of the windows, the making of the cross and the sacred vessels, and composed the Latin couplets which described the objects of his concern. Under one of the three rows of arches above the main entrance runs an inscription recording the erection of the church by the abbe Suger, minister to Louis VI, with abbatial funds, and its consecration, in 1140.
http://www.oldandsold.com/articles08/pa ... l-18.shtml

http://www.oldandsold.com/articles08/pa ... l-16.shtml


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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2010 7:37 pm 
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Last edited by Sheila on 01 Oct 2012 1:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2010 7:38 pm 
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Treasures of St Denis :D

http://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/texts/ ... nway2.html


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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2010 2:44 pm 
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This description is interesting..."In such a country Bacchus was greatly respected. Per Bacco was a familiar oath and temples were raised to the god of wine and offerings made in the interest of the crops. As we know, most of the early Christian churches repose upon the ruins of temples or altars dedicated in remoter centuries to pagan deities. Notre-Dame covers the foundation of an altar raised to a nautical divinity, Saint-Germain-des-Pres stands upon the site of a temple to Isis, Saint-Pierre-de-Montmartre succeeds Mercury, and Saint-Denis displaces Bacchus...."

The author is stating a commonsensical approach The Bishops used...namely, that of using an already used spot. Why waste more useful land than necessary. Once that pagan ruin was excavated and a new Basilica was raised the site was 'purged' of its previous use, yes? That's what a Christian consecration all about. Once a pagan gets baptized, its a form of exorcism .yes? The only way a pagan can become a pagan again is to exercise his free will.

A pagan can rant + rave 'til hell freezes over that a Christian dwelling was built over a pagan site, so what? If a pagan is that indoctrinated, that's his problem to deal with, it ain't a problem for the Vatican. Consecrated ground is zakly that, dedicated to the honor + glory of Jesus, satan has to take a hike under those circumstance, yes? otherwise he also will get converted with all the incantations for jesus to come into that dwelling every time a priest says a Mass and requests the presence of jesus in all of the Communion Hosts that are in that edifice.

To put it bluntly, evil will never co-jointly exist on co-equal terms in the presence of Jesus. When a rogue cleric like Sauniere defiles his priestly vows as Sauniere did, Jesus will never be present in any location where Sauniere defiles the Sacred Persona of Jesus. Its that's simple. Anybody who received a Communion Host from Sauniere after he got defrocked, just got an ordinary piece of blasphemized bread. Sauniere was no longer authorized to hear Confessions from his parishoners. Their sins were not forgiven.

Did that put a curse of RLC, yep, it sure did as long as Sauniere was alive. If priests sent to RLC to administer to the the Sacraments were ignored by the peasants who preferred Sauniere, they did so at the cost of their own soul. Now if ya wanna take up that evil aspect of the RLC enigma, be my guest. I don't see any salvation coming from Sauniere's quest for the Crista. In this regard Sheila is correct, it is evil, 'cuz of how it was abused.

The La Sanch krowd fall into the same dilemma,yes?

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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 17 Mar 2010 9:01 pm 
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for anyone interested in Fortunatus or medieval or Greek history :D
its in French but tranlates really easily with the google translator....just right click with your mouse and click on google translator then tell it to always translate french.
It works for me most of the time and i have a normal lap top thats not high tech, in fact it does it automatically now.... :lol:

http://remacle.org/bloodwolf/eglise/fortunat/table.htm

http://remacle.org/


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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 17 Mar 2010 9:08 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 17 Mar 2010 9:25 pm 
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:lol: :lol: well....i did say ONLY if anyone is interested :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 17 Mar 2010 9:30 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 17 Mar 2010 11:56 pm 
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Thank-you Tingra.

It is a lot of work, to get through. I appreciate the links.

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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2010 5:53 pm 
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This is for Tingra and Sheila:

http://www.westernorthodox.com/index.html


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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2010 5:57 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2010 6:06 pm 
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Hi Sheila,

The background design of the page (in blue).

I thought it was an interesting design that had some similarities perhaps to that artifact you love to research : )

Then again, maybe no similarity whatsoever and i have been at this computer for too long.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2010 7:20 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2010 2:22 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
Even if people have problem with IBJ's in depth study surely you can understand the implications just by reading the history.
The PAX Chi Rho symbol that is called the "monogram" of Christ and appears in churches all over the world...is no such thing.
History tells us about Constantine the Great going specifically to the "most beautiful temple in the world" that A L-J states quite categorically was just north of the Seine river in the sacred plain where the Druidic tribes from Gaul converged once a year. Here Constantine was actually given two objects...one of which was a very ancient revered artifact used for a specific purpose which i wont go into right now.
This pagan object was subjected to political & churchy spin/propoganda and portrayed as the PAX Chi Rho, because that's kind of what it looks like...taken & used by the early French church it was evolved into the Fleur de Lys and Christ's "monogram"...even though it was nothing of the sort.
Centuries later and even today it is being searched for by certain groups who want to use it for exactly the same purpose it was used for when it was first thrust into Constantines hands.

The object in question has got nothing to do with goodness & righteousness and everything to do with an ancient object that should never have seen the light of day.


Light of Day is about right
It's the Sun sign.

Image

Image

The spring equinox occurs during Pisces. The two fishes. House of fish (Beth - saida in Hebrew)

The opposite sign (i.e. when one rises the other sets) is House of Bread - Beth - Lehem. Virgo

The autumn equinox occurs during Virgo.

The five loaves and two fishes story

Jesus is nothing more than yet another sun diety

Sauniere and Boudet knew

Here's the D M stone and a sketch of the Quarter and Cross Quarter Days.

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2010 6:51 pm 
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bergeredearcadie wrote:
Hi Sheila,

The background design of the page (in blue).

I thought it was an interesting design that had some similarities perhaps to that artifact you love to research : )

Then again, maybe no similarity whatsoever and i have been at this computer for too long.


You've hit a big nail SQUARELY on the head, Sandy - but for reasons you most likely don't even realize!

Like Lov says, everything is connected and there are no coincidences...

TCP


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 Post subject: Re: The "Crista"
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2010 6:58 pm 
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You've hit a big nail SQUARELY on the head, Sandy - but for reasons you most likely don't even realize!

I have?
Well i must say, that doesnt happen too often.

And btw, i had a long reply to your questions about Veronica in the other thread, but didnt bother to post it ......

Whats the big nail?


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