Arcadia Discussion Zone

The Merry Devil wrote:


Are you sure, Merry Devil?

One lion, two hares and eleven shields?

Power, control, money.

Let me tell you a story.

The Hare Rides the Lion.

'Once upon a time a lion came to town and met a man who was very kind to him. The lion said to the towns-people, “I want this man to be my brother and by and by I will take him to my house”.

The towns-people said, “very well”, so every day the lion came to visit him. By and by a hare came into town and saw this, so he went away and put on nice clothes and came back, saying, “I want this man to be my brother”; but the people in the town said “No, he is the lion’s brother”.

The hare said, “the lion is of no importance; he is no more than my horse”.

The people of the town laughed, but the hare repeated it.

The hare went home and the people told the lion what the hare had said. The lion became very angry and said he would go and get the hare and make him tell them that he had spoken falsely.

So, the lion went to the hare and told him what the people had said. Of course, the hare denied it; and added that if he were not feeling so ill he would go and tell the people himself that what they had said was untrue. The lion wanted the hare to come with him and say so; but the hare said he was too ill to walk.

The lion said, “very well, I will carry you”

The hare agreed and said “Good, because it is important that they understand that what they’ve said is a lie”. So the lion took the hare on his back.

By and by, as they travelled along, the hare complained that he was so weak that he would fall off if the lion did not let him have a bridle to hold onto. The lion agreed and put a rope between his teeth for the hare to hold on to as they went up to the town.

As they travelled the hare complained that the flies were so bad that, with all his swatting, he was likely to fall off the lion’s back, and he needed a switch to keep the flies away while he held on to the bridle with his other hand.

So the lion gave him a switch and the hare merrily swatted at the flies until they arrived at the village.

On arriving at the village all the people came out to see the hare riding on the lion’s back, controlling him with the bridle and beating him with the switch.'

There's more to this than is obvious at first glance.

Regards to all

Wombat.

William Morris Tapestry

Ah, William Morris, thanks Renne for the pic, however the tapestry is not medieval, it is by William Morris.So William Morris knew a thing or two.

So why is Gawain's name on the tapestry "Sir Gawaine of Orkney", and why does this matter?

And Wombat, what is the secret of the hare and the lion?

Hi Wombat,
The first thing that stood out to me was the lion, then the shield with the lions on it leaning against the tree, as if it was identifying the tree. Along with the Red Cross in the middle of the tree as if it was saying between the shoulder blades.

I agree “There's more to this than is obvious at first glance”

Best!

Each of the twelve tribes of Israel had its own symbol. Judah's was the lion


The lion is the symbol of the Tribe of Judah. It is often represented in Jewish art, such as this sculpture outside a synagogue




The lion of Judah on the emblem of Jerusalem

Judah, your brothers will praise you;
Your hand will be on the neck of your enemies;
Your father's sons will bow down to you.
You are a lion's club, O Judah...
The scepter will not depart from Judah,
Nor the ruler's staff from between his feet,
Until he comes to whom it belongs
And the obedience of the nations is his. (Gen. 49:8-10)

Lions and Hares

I didn't know that the Lion was the symbol of Jerusalem, interesting.

Hey Wombat, look forward to hearing about the Hare and the Lion.
I'm aware the Hare is a Moon symbol, and the Lion is a Sun symbol.
Is it something to do with Easter (bunnies) and the calculation of Easter as a lunar festival rather than solar?

Anyway that's my best guess.

I would point out that there is ancient Indo-European mythology around the Hare.
The Moon was the storehouse of Soma.
I've mentioned on my thread about Jack and Jill being kidnapped by the Moon.
So that's where their pail/cauldron of Mead/Soma ended up.
In some myths the Moon is inhabited by a Hare.
That's why all Hares a viewed as incarnations of Soma.

Hare Krishna, Hare Hare ...

I will post on my thread http://andrewgough.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2126&start=225 the reason Gawain comes from Orkney.
It is important.

A Legend is a living tradition, nearer Truth than what men call History.

The distinction between historian and poet is not in the one writing prose and the other verse... the one describes the thing that has been, and the other a kind of thing that might be. Hence poetry is something more philosophic and of graver import than history, since its statements are of the nature rather of universals, whereas those of history are singulars. ~Aristotle, On Poetics

"I have always preferred Mythology to History because History is made up of truths that later become lies and Mythology is made up of lies that later become truths". Jean Cocteau

Why are there two hares in the tapestry?

OK. I'm extemporizing here.

In my story the lion is tamed by the hare (albeit through some trickery) and so represents the power of mind over body or a transformation of instinct and the application of spiritual power.

Spiritual knowledge is circular in that it consistently returns to rebirth/reincarnation/new beginnings.

That is how the hare runs during the chase. In a circle, such that it returns to its starting point if not captured by the hounds. This instinct is known by those who hunt the hare. And it is considered to be very poor form indeed to cut across the circle to take the hare from the front. In Ireland this was known as the chasing of the Callyach.

The Saxon Idol of the Moon (which I've posted before) wears the chapron with the head and shoulders of the hare and holds a shield (or Moon disc) containing a woman's face.



So, what do those two hares represent in that tapestry?

Regards to all

Wombat.

Yes very true, I agree with both Aristotle & Jean Cocteau.

Rain,

Thank you for sharing.

Best!

The unicorn is used a lot in heraldry. Has anyone ever
heard the term "The Unicorn of Israel"?

Sticking with the Tapestry for a moment longer.
Ivaldi wrote:


And why are his Arms not there?

Gawaine of Orkney

Purpure, a double headed eagle, Or.

But another view is that Sir Gawain’s shield is….”a golden pentagle against a field of red. A pentagle is a star with five points. Because the lines forming the pentangle on Gawain's shield are continuous and never broken, the star is a symbol of integrity; it signifies that all the knightly virtues and moral values of the knight who bears the shield are intact in the knight's character. Whether these virtues and values will remain intact after Gawain leaves Camelot to find the Green Knight becomes a key question in the story. The narrator of the story explains and describes the pentangle, including the symbolism of each point of the star, in this way:
http://www.cummingsstudyguides.net/Guides4/Gawain.html



“In medieval number theory, the number five is considered a “circular number”, since it “reproduces itself in its last digit when raised to its powers”.[50] Furthermore, it replicates itself geometrically; that is, every pentangle has a smaller pentagon that allows a pentangle to be embedded in it and this “process may be repeated forever with decreasing pentangles”.[50] Thus, by reproducing the number five, which in medieval number symbolism signified incorruptibility, Gawain's pentangle represents his eternal incorruptibility.[51] “

And:

“The poet goes on to list the ways in which Gawain is virtuous: all five of his senses are without fault; his five fingers never fail him, and he always remembers the five wounds of Christ, as well as the five joys of the Virgin Mary. The fifth five is Gawain himself, who embodies the five moral virtues of the code of chivalry: "friendship, generosity, chastity, courtesy, and piety".[54] All of these virtues reside, as the poet says, in the "Endless Knot" of the pentangle, which forever interlinks and is never broken.[55] This intimate relationship between symbol and faith allows for rigorous allegorical interpretation, especially in the physical role that the shield plays in Gawain’s quest. [56] Thus, the poet makes Gawain the epitome of perfection in knighthood through number symbolism.[57]”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Gawain ... een_Knight

A further good discussion is at:

http://www.yorku.ca/inpar/arthur_mstsggk.pdf

Either way, the double headed eagle or the Pentangle, neither appears on the tapestry. Why?

Regards to all

Wombat.

Rather than wading through this article from the beginning the relevant bit starts at Page 19. "The Shield of Truth".

http://www.yorku.ca/inpar/arthur_mstsggk.pdf

Regards to all

Wombat.

Yes I have, Interesting subject.
Please find the Google link below
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&s ... =&aq=f&oq=


The word Unicorn is found 9 times in the Bible, results below.

1. Numbers 23:21-23 (King James Version)
21He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the LORD his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.
22God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.
23Surely there is no enchantment against Jacob, neither is there any divination against Israel: according to this time it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel, What hath God wrought!
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV

2. Numbers 24:7-9 (King James Version)
7He shall pour the water out of his buckets, and his seed shall be in many waters, and his king shall be higher than Agag, and his kingdom shall be exalted.
8God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows.
9He couched, he lay down as a lion, and as a great lion: who shall stir him up? Blessed is he that blesseth thee, and cursed is he that curseth thee.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV

3. Deuteronomy 33:16-18 (King James Version)
16And for the precious things of the earth and fulness thereof, and for the good will of him that dwelt in the bush: let the blessing come upon the head of Joseph, and upon the top of the head of him that was separated from his brethren.
17His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.
18And of Zebulun he said, Rejoice, Zebulun, in thy going out; and, Issachar, in thy tents.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV

4. Job 39:8-10 (King James Version)
8The range of the mountains is his pasture, and he searcheth after every green thing.
9Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?
10Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee?
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV

5. Job 39:9-11 (King James Version)
9Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?
10Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee?
11Wilt thou trust him, because his strength is great? or wilt thou leave thy labour to him?
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV

6. Psalm 22:20-22 (King James Version)
20Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
21Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV

7. Psalm 29:5-7 (King James Version)
5The voice of the LORD breaketh the cedars; yea, the LORD breaketh the cedars of Lebanon.
6He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.
7The voice of the LORD divideth the flames of fire.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV

8. Psalm 92:9-11 (King James Version)
9For, lo, thine enemies, O LORD, for, lo, thine enemies shall perish; all the workers of iniquity shall be scattered.
10But my horn shalt thou exalt like the horn of an unicorn: I shall be anointed with fresh oil.
11Mine eye also shall see my desire on mine enemies, and mine ears shall hear my desire of the wicked that rise up against me.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV

9. Isaiah 34:6-8 (King James Version)
6The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.
7And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
8For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV

In the original 1611 edition of the KJB, the editors placed “or Rhinoceros” in the margin of Isaiah 34:7 where it reads: “And the unicorns shall come down with them.” It is still in the modern editions of the KJB. So the KJB editors were not ignorant of the possibility of the unicorn being a rhinoceros.

http://www.learnthebible.org/unicorns-in-the-bible.html

The Grail dynasty also has been known as the 'House of Unicorns'.
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q ... s%22&meta=

Still sticking with it for a minute longer.

Of the 11 shields only some show their Coat of Arms. Of those there are only two that I can identify off the list of the six knights, (ie Sirs Gawaine, Lancelot, Hector, Bors, Percival and Galahad) written into the tapestry. They are Lancelot and Galahad.



Who owns the other Coats of Arms? What is the significance of the shields that are reversed thus hiding their CoA?

Do you know, Renne?

What is the story behind this Tapestry?

Still digging.

Regards to all

Wombat.

Hi Wombat,
When I made my comment on the Tapestry, My first glance was what I previous stated. "The first thing that stood out to me was the lion, then the shield with the lions on it leaning against the tree, as if it was identifying the tree. Along with the Red Cross in the middle of the tree as if it was saying between the shoulder blades."

I also believe it has to do with the Knights quest for the Holy Grail.

The Knights of the Round Table
King Arthur, Sir Galahad, Sir Lancelot, Sir Kay, Sir Gawain, Sir Bors de Ganis, Sir Geraint, Sir Lamorak,
Sir Gareth, Sir Tristan, Sir Gaheris, Sir Percivale, Sir Bedivere.
http://www.kingarthursknights.com/knights/arthur.asp



There are actually 13 shields in the tapestry, 10 are in the trees, while 2 of the10 are backwards and are hard to see. 1 is leaning on the tree, 1on the ground in front of the Lion, and 1 is a real small one at the bottom right hand corner.


Lancelot is on the left, recognizable by his arms.
http://www.heraldica.org/topics/arthur.htm

As far as the TWO RABBITS They are often used as a symbol of fertility or rebirth.
(BLOODLINE)

Red Cross, Grail Symbol
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=red+c ... hl=en&sa=2

RED FOX, GRAIL
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=red+f ... hl=en&sa=2

Your opinion is equally valuable.

Best!

The Merry Devil wrote:


Sticking with the tapestry for just one second longer. The marketers of the tapestry maintain it's about the search for the Unicorn.

Medieval Tapestries ~ Pansu

This scene in the tapestry, Heraldic Lion is symbolic of The Quest for the Unicorn by King Arthur's court and the Knights of the Round Table, and is inspired by fine woven goods from William Morris tapestry designs (whatever that means!!)

The king of beasts - our lion symbolizes strength, bravery, valor and royalty.

Medieval Pansu tapestry woven in France, wool, cotton and viscose/rayon blend, lined with sleeve for rod, dry clean.

Two Sizes: 28w x 36h or 40w x 50h.

Well there you go, Renne and TMW. It’s a William Morris look-alike. Just like one of those two-bob look-alike counterfeit Tissot’s that tick for a bit then turn it in. The design at best comes from the 1890s. So it's more a poetically licensed work of art than a true representation of fact. Oh well...

Interestingly, William Morris at this time, had rooms at Red Lion Square, London, as did Dante Gabriel Rossetti. There's a plaque on one of the buildings commemorating the fact. A quaint little pub (the Dolphin) exists on the corner near there (Cnr of Lambs’ Conduit and Red Lion St – from memory). It serves a real ale, Ivaldi.

As you can see, my digging about has not all been in vain!

Although not shown in the tapestry, the identification from other sources of Sir Gawaine’s shield with the Pentangle seems to have a nice synchronicity with his quest for the Holy Grail, with Rennes le Chateau and with HL’s pentacle geometry around RLC.

Similarly, Galahad’s CoA, (Argent, a cross, Gules) – see in my post above - and Robert de Boron’s assertion in his poem that Galahad is the son of Joseph of Arimathea adds greater interest; especially with the Queste del Saint Graal calling Galahad a scion of the House of David, and identifying him with Jesus. (HBHG, p323).

Regards to all

Wombat.

Now, it appears to be a coconut tree placed in back of a ship's wheel.

I don't know what the tartan of the Sinclair family is, but it is possible the tartan on the station of the cross is supposed to be the tartan of the Sinclairs and a reference maybe to rossyln Chapel.

Heraldic Shields

From what I can see the tapestry above was actually originally designed by Edward Burne Jones and woven by Morris & Co, and is one of the six panels illustrating the story of the Holy Grail. A link to another in the series is below:
http://www.medievalwalltapestry.com/deer-and-shields.html
This one has heaps more shields .. including the arms of the Knights of the Round Table : Sir Gawaine, Lancelot, Hector, Perceval, Bors and Galahad. The original is in the Birmingham Museum.

Anyway, why does it matter? Well when Gawain got to the Castle of the Astronomer at the end of Le Conte del Graal he had the extraordinary adventure of the bed of marvels, and was attacked by a lion. The lion embedded its claws in Gawain's shield, and then Gawain cut off its head and legs, and the paw(s?) were left embedded in the shield.

Since Chretien de Troyes was the Ensign Bard for Marie de Champagne he was an expert on heraldry, and its critical to know who Chretien is telling us was at Rennes-le-Chateau (Castle of the Astronomer).

What do the Lion claws on the shield mean? I'm thinking either a the Plantagenet Lion or a Pattee Cross
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_patt%C3%A9e

The only link between RLC and Rosslyn Chapel that I can substantiate is Dan Brown
To quote Jake and Tim from a few pages back:-


Quite !
Regards
Nic

Rosslyn and Rennes-le-Chateau

We can connect RLC and Rosslyn (well actually the Templars of nearby Ballantradoch) because in Le Conte del Graal Perceval's sister tells him that when his sword breaks he must take it to the Smith Trebuchet at the Firth of Forth to have it reforged.

The Firth of Forth is where King David I of Scotland granted Hugh de Payens and his knights the lands of Ballantradoch, also known as Temple Village (by the Firth of Forth), soon after the Council of Troyes in 1129. This area is the location of Rosslyn Chapel, built 300+ years later in 1446.

The Templars were famous engineers and specialists in light and heavy arms such as Trebuchets (catapults). So in 1180 or so if you identified someone as "Trebuchet from the Firth of Forth" you were saying "Knights Templar".

Sorry, Ivaldi, but I'm not seeing the connection. The Templars are connected to a place near Rosslyn. Fine. I'm not persuaded that they have any connection to Rennes-le-Chateau, but some think they do, as discussed on other threads. But even if they were, what connects the two places?



That sounded very unlikely, so I looked up the origin of the word "trebuchet". It's from an old French verb, trebucher, which means to tumble, or fall over, and derives from the action of the long arm on one of those weapons. So surely you wouldn't identify someone as that - unless they somehow resembled a giant catapault.

Sorry. I enjoy reading much of what you write, and certainly wouldn't claim to know much about the Templars, but I couldn't really follow the logic of either of those two statements. Best regards.

The shield that seems to hide the most in the tapestry is the one directly behind LANCELOTS as you can barely see it edges on the left side of his shield.

Look at the lion’s right front leg, just above the shield. (It not a flower) What’s your option on the symbol?

The daisies growing in front of the tree show up on the tree. This is not by accident; it shows a connection with the tree just as the shield leaning on the tree did with the 3 lions on it.

Shakespeare describes the English daisy as the "Wee, modest, crimson-tippit flower."

Crimson has to do with Royal blood, the colour of the kings, as the shield has to do with the ‘Lion of the tribe of Judah’, the line of Kings.

13 shields
The number 13 as you would know is also an important number within the Grail bloodline, aka the Merovingian bloodline.

Best!

Thank you Ivaldi for the William Morris reference, I`m really enjoying his work

Thank you for the Biblical unicorn quotes Merry D.,
reading them makes me feel stronger.

How about that Trinidad crest?! It reminds me of all
of the palm -fiber found in Nova Scotia in the money-pit
treasure mine.
Oh yes, I think that the RLC kilt in the Station of the Cross
plaque references Rosslyn Chapel.