Arcadia Discussion Zone

"Under the bed" was a figure of speech.
And it's about time Captier published Sauniere's whole diary, and not just the one page where "Vu Cros et Secret" is written. Researchers need to consult the whole diary.

ROTFLMAO!!!



Sources, please.

TCP

I see the rest of this thread has been deleted. Did someone gets their feelings hurt?

TCP

Well, to Roscoe's credit, to my knowledge he's never asked that our dialogues be expunged from a thread. I can't say the same for another participant who "corrected" me on the definition of simony yesterday and got the textbook definition culled from the Catholic Encyclopedia in response.

TCP

Columbus' father in law was a high ranking Knight of Christ, and it is well known that the Knights had better and more extensive maps than anybody else. Here's one from 1502. had to reduce the size to fit in Imageshack, but you can see the Templar flags. What's that on the left, the Carribean? Not too likely they got all that information within just the 10 years after 1492.

It's doubtful that Bartolomeu Perestrello (the father-in-law of Columbus) was actually a member of the Order of Christ, though several authors have speculated on it. Perestrello sailed with Prince Henry the Navigator just prior to the latter's acquisition of the governorship of the Order of Christ in 1420, which launched the Order as an exploratory force. Perestrello became sedentary in 1419 as the appointed governor (and in 1455, the hereditary lord) of the island of Porto Santo. Also, the Order of Christ was organized along monastic lines and its knights subject to vows of celibacy and poverty until 1492. Perestrello had three wives (not simultaneously, of course) and died in 1457, twenty-two years before his daughter married Columbus.

JB, where are you seeing "Templar" flags on this map? I see Castile/Aragon, Portugal, a couple of St. George banners, but nowhere am I seeing the Templars' Beauceant.

TCP

Okay, I guess I stretched the St. George cross flags into Templar flags. What are they then, British?

To Roger, yes, The Grail Star Treasure is an exciting new subject in esotericism. It's strength lies in its connectability to several areas of interest, mysterious paintings, for daVinci Code fans (though in this case Poussin), treasure islands (Oak Island) for treasure and pirate fans (though probably no pirates involved, I can work some in), secret societies, astronomy/astrology and sacred geometry to name a few. It's all things to all people. Plus it's nice to look at. It's very cinemagenic, you might say. The Grail Star is the future of cool mysterious stuff.

Well, the ones placed over England and Ireland would definitely denote England; the one that looks like it is directly under the "floating" citadel would be Genoa; the last remaining one is a bit of a mystery. It's pole seems to be grounded right at Marseilles, though their traditional flag is white with a light blue cross, rather than red. Tough to tell. One would think it would denote a maritime power like the others. I thought perhaps it might have been the naval ensign of the Kingdom of Naples under the Anjous, but it would be outdated for this map by about twenty years. Short answer - don't know.

TCP

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Note that the two red cross flags to the right, in France and Europe, are square rather than curved on the bottom. Could be because they are actual flags instead of just symbols.
Since they are shown on flag poles maybe they mean British flags of conquest or colonies.

More importantly, what's this? I say it's the East coast of Nova Scotia, including Mahone Bay, in which is located Oak Island. Note the oak trees. Notice how it shows the tops of the trees on the Spanish side but the land itself on the Portugese side. I think it means that although NS is actually on the Spanish side, the land is claimed by the Portuguese as theirs. Meaning as far as they are concerned. An odd fact of history is that Spain never showed any interest in those northern parts of the Americas. There was actually a clause in the contract which excluded lands already claimed tby any Christian prince. Henry Sinclair was a Christian prince and had claimed Nova Scotia in 1398. The Templars had moved operations to Portugal after 1307 so maybe they saw it as theirs through Sinclair. This page says it's Newfoundland but NFLD doesn't look like that while NS does. NFLD is also quite barren whereas NS is full of big deciduous trees, like those oaks http://www.heritage.nf.ca/exploration/portuguese.html . NFLD has no oak trees at all http://visitnewfoundland.ca/tree.html . So as far as the Knights of Christ were concerned, they were burying the Ark of Zion, which they had taken from Ethiopia, on Portuguese property.

Wrong.



Wrong.

Well, he was obviously a prince, hence the name Prince Henry Sinclair, so I guess, according to you, he wasn't really a Catholic like the rest of his family. Who knew he was really a Muslim?

Wrong.
His correct title was Jarl (corresponding to "Earl") of Orkney - the original Latin word would have been "Princepiis" but since he was not a Prince this word is not translated as "Prince" by historians - only by pseudo-historians.

I don't think Henry Sinclair was a prince. I understood him to have been a Scottish nobleman. But why WAS/IS he sometimes referred to as "Prince Henry Sinclair"?

He was addressed by the Scandinavian occupiers of Orkney as "Princepiis" but this was not a literal title.

England didn't have any contintental holdings in Europe by the time this map was made, and never that far east. Genoa I'm quite sure of, the other I can't say whose flag it is with any certainty.



I believe that is Newfoundland or Labrador, JB - not Nova Scotia. I don't know why any other territory in that part of the world would be referred to as the "Terra del Rey de Portugall."



France, England, or the Scandivanian states, for instance.



According to legend, not according to fact which can be sustained by documented evidence. In fact, his surviving manorial records from the 1390s don't give any hint that he was away from his own lands for a significant length of time.



The Templars as a whole (or as a remnant) did not move their operations to Portugal. The Portuguese Templars were simply reorganized and re-named, as were the Templars in Aragon.

As for William Sinclair, he lived well after the dissolution of the Templars. The modern Sinclair myth machine has tried to make him out to be a Templar, and Knight of the Golden Fleece, and of Santiago. All have been proven false.



Neither does Brazil have any conifers on its shoreline, but I wouldn't doubt for a moment that where this map shows Brazil to be is, in fact, Brazil. Or a piece of Brazil, it's an early map so I wouldn't expect completeness or a high degree of accuracy.



Why wouldn't the Knights of Christ simply bring it back to Portugal?

TCP

I looked at Google Earth and there is nothing resembling the Alberto Cantino Map depiction in Newfoundland or Labrador. Let's see how Mahone Bay Nova Scotia compares. They've obviously distorted it some, for purposes of secrecy of sensitive information, but clearly this is what is represented.

Sinclair need not have been involved. Portugal had their own explorers.

And now ninety-odd posts later, back to the subject of this particular thread . . .





When looked from a certain angle, is it possible that Poussin's second Shepherds of Arcadia is in reality a 3D painting?!!

No, now if you don't mind please leave us alone on this thread we hijacked from you. The original subject was wacky but we somehow got on other subjects which were much more interesting. We were just too lazy to start a whole new thread. Fine, I'll start a new thread.