Arcadia Discussion Zone

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Yep, you're 100% correct... no possible connection there.
Oh wait, I forgot... any black and white chequered floor has the deep hidden significance of any other black and white chequered floor... ergo.. a rock with a seat carved into it has got to be 100% the same as a vaguely seat-like naturally-formed rock.

There was no castle at La Vialasse. Only a mill, a fortified grange and an observation tower.

Okay, Roger the genius, you tell me, where did the person who carved a big rock in the middle of the woods into an armchair get the idea for that? I gave a perfectly plausible explanation and you gave nada, as usual. As with Sandy and Richard, I can see why YOU have never solved anything vaguely related to the subject of this forum, Rennes-le-Chateau. Or did I miss it? Very easy to take shots at somebody else's efforts, isn't it Roger?

I am really going to have to start paying more attention when I drive along that road!

I'm assuming this is a recent installation by someone, and not an authentic ancient stone circle. The area around RLC, as I'm sure you can imagine, does attract all sorts of people and beliefs, so I can easily envisage someone going to the trouble of installing such a thing. I just had no idea it was there.

Would be fascinated to see a photo of that, Colin, if at all possible. Most intriguing.

Hi Richard,

I have forwarded Andy three photos of the Pagan thingo that I saw in the field on the road to Bugarach not far from La Vialasse.

I have asked him if he would kindly post them on the forum for all to see.

Very interesting thing...made of straw with rock outer point and a pryamidial shape in the centre

Cheers

Colin Boucher

If those were "efforts", they were paltry efforts indeed. The carving of the "chair" in the rock called the "Fauteuil du Diable" has been the object of prior research and the who and when of it is known, albeit apparently not to anglos. Do some research instead of playing with pictures and using a CAD/CAM programme like an etch-a-sketch.

Let me explain how a forum works... People postulate theories and other people test them for plausibility and factual correctness. Generally, unless their ego is of a particularly fragile nature, the postulating party is grateful for people pointing out items they had overlooked or were unknown to them, leading them to revise their theory. Ideally, the exercise results in lesser-known facts being brought to the attention of all participants and dead-end avenues of speculation can be set aside saving considerable amounts of time for one and all. But that's just "ideally", of course.

BTW, jb, I know this will seem like a gratuitous shot to you, but you should seriously think about learning to read French as fluently as possible. The vast body of prior research on these topics is in French. The totality of the historic archives and registers concerning the region are in French or Catalan or Latin. The serious ongoing conversations on these topics are being carried out in French. A lot of "anglo" readers seem to rely on dodgy translations and selective quotes from the French by third parties who are generally anglo "researchers" with a thesis to protect (misrepresenting original texts is something many French "researchers" do as well, doing it with the added problem of mistranslation is only compounding the problem). This is hardly conducive to any sort of constructive understanding.

Ask serious people like Filip, or Corjan, where they'd be in all this if they couldn't read a source text in French, for themselves...

No, I think French is more appropriate for you, Roger. I prefer manly languages to pouffey ones. In fact, I didn't even like using the word pouffe just then. I see you convenient avoided suggesting a plausible reason for the carving of a boulder into a chair in the middle of the woods. What a surprise, Roger.

I think the most plausible reason for carving the chair out of that rock is likely nothing more exciting than this : At some point in the past, a local landowner became used to perching himself on the uncut rock, when stopping here to take refreshment for himself and his horse from the conveniently located nearby spring. Because the tree cover was far less dense then, the views down to the village of RLB and across the valley were really rather lovely, and the landowner came to enjoy spending time here. But the rock was less comfortable than he would have liked, and so he had one of his estate workers, or perhaps a local mason, carve a seat into it.

For what it's worth, that's my theory on the "Devil's Armchair". Just a nice place to sit and look at a view.

Now, that doesn't mean that later generations of people - Boudet, Sauniere, etc. - didn't invest this place with some greater meaning, and may well have buried things here (such as the thing Ben dug up). But I'm sure it was just a chair to start with. Would love to be proved wrong on that, but until that happens, I'm going with the simplest explanation.

I hope that's not raining on anyone's parade. I know some people have invested a lot in the significance of that particular place. I once ran in to a group of Magdalinistas up there, holding some sort of ceremony. Needless to say they looked completely horrified to see me ambling up the track, and the leader-ene of the group approached me, and in a hushed and absurdly serious tone, implored me to leave the area, since she was concerned that having a (shock, horror) man in the sacred space might cause their "spell" to go wrong, or whatever it was they were doing with a bunch of twigs arranged in patterns in the dirt.

I didn't have the heart to say no, and anyway, each to their own, live and let live, etc., so I left them to it, went to the top of the rise, had a cigarette, came back down, found that they'd left (spell successfully accomplished, I assume) and had the place to myself.

So I accept that people believe this to be a mystical spot, and good luck to them. No problem there. But as to it's origin? For the time being, I'm going with the "seat with a view" theory.

jb, are you really a precocious 14 year old child fiddling about with mum's computer?

The explanation Richard gave happens to be the truth, although it wasn't for the view.

What for then?
(I guess you don't wanna tell ...)

Then for what? Do please tell. I can't see that it would have had a utilitarian function, such as a lookout. Even allowing for the less dense tree cover in the past, there's a fairly large rock formation to one's right as one sits in the chair, that would likely have obscured any view to the south. Besides, someone on lookout duty would not have such a carving made for them. They'd have been told to sit on the ground and get on with it. The stone can only have been cut for someone of importance, which surely rules out any practical purpose.

That leaves three possibilities. That it was a pre-Christian pagan place of worship, which we don't think it is. That is was a post-Christian pagan place of worship, which is more plausible, but runs counter to my previously posted theory, which you have said is largely correct. That just leaves the "view theory" - somewhere to look out over one's land beside a conveniently located watering point. A place of recuperation and relaxation.

Anyway, how did we get to the Devil's Armchair? I thought this was a Vialasse thread! No matter. I'm intrigued now. Further thoughts, Roger, would be gratefully received.

It's as you said, a specific person had it carved, but rather than to admire the view, to admire his people at work (the area was deforested back then)

Oh yeah, much easier to carve a chair out of a rock than to actually take a real chair out there. The fact that Roger eagerly agreed with this ridiculous idea shows his mental level. Since when is it comfortable to sit in a rock chair? I think Richard and Roger should get rock chairs for their living rooms, then they can live in style like Fred Flintstone.

As it happens, JB, the "Armchair" is suprisingly snug and comfortable.

You should go and check it out, and much else round there besides. I'm sure you'd be very taken with it - wonderful scenery, ruined castles, friendly people, great food, delicious wines; and that's before you even start to think about the "mystery". And no "hole in floor" toilets; I promise. Haven't seen one of those since childhood.

Seriously - it would do you a world of good to get out of the Rumpus Room and take in some of that wonderful mountain air.

With best wishes, as always,

Richard

Oh jeez ! you're making me all nostalgic about the place, and I wish I could go back there toot suit. What you write about the area is absolutely correct, it's the nearest thing to a Shangri La that I've ever experienced. Part of the joy is bumping into other RLC addicts - when we were in Arques we were having lunch in the Arques Rock Cafe and an elderly Dutch chap came up to me noticing I was perusing my well-thumbed copy of the "Holy Place", he had his well-thumbed hardback copy of HBHG. We had a pleasant chat about the places we had visited. Add to that the general friendliness of the villagers of Couiza where our digs were. Such are the pleasures of life.

Is the Arques Rock Cafe still there by the way ?

Now if I could only get the lottery up, I'd be heading to Couiza asap, and for good.

I'll be sure to drop by the Armchair next time I vacation in the south a France. I'll use my private jet to get there from Nova Scotia. Now does or doesn't the armchair point the sitter in the direction of St. Baume, which would probably be somewhere around 20 degrees Norrh of East? The GPS coordinates of the chair would come in handy.

Montsegur (village)

'Hole in floor' toilets

But the rest of what you said is spot on.

It certainly points in an easterly direction, but I couldn't be more specific than that. I don't know the GPS co-ordinates, but surely it's the orientation of the thing that is more relevant to your particular line of enquiry, and you'd need to go up there with a compass to work that out. Easterly is as good as I can manage, I'm afraid.

Tell me about it! Would love to move down there too, mystery or no mystery. I'm sure the beauty of the area must do a lot to sustain people's interest in this whole affair, particularly dilettantes like me, who so enjoy just being there, and mooching around. I wonder if Sauniere had been vicar of Milton Keynes, if we'd be having this conversation!

Not sure about the Arques Rock Cafe; didn't go to Arques village on my last trip (October 2007), just to the castle, which I absoultely love.

I have though wondered about what has become of the late Jean Luc Robin's bar in RLC village; somewhere else I used to like hanging out. Does anyone know?

I found what I believe to be the general location of the chair, a little South of RLB. St. Baume is about 12 degrees North of East from it. Now wouldn't that be quite a coincidence if the chair was in that same orientation? That would kind of support my little theory about it being based on the St Baume stone and kind of make the contentions that it is a mere chair made to sit in for the heck of it a little questionable, now wouldn't it?

It was closed the four times I visited RLC last month. In fact I was very disappointed with the village itself.

A lot has changed since my last visit.

Plaster coming off the walls in the church. Missing bricks from the top of the Tour Magdala. Statues altered. Sauniere's private chapel empty. Access to parts of the presbytery closed (where the digging took place).

A real disappointment.

Arques Rock Cafe looked to be open though, I didn't go in this time.

PS

All the time I've been there and it is the first time I noticed that the local name for Arques is Arcas. JB should be interested in that.

PPS

Just outside of Couiza on the Arques road there is a slogan saying 'English go Home'.

I'm sorry to hear that. I loved sitting in that garden, and Jean Luc Robin had done as much as he possibly could with the restaurant given the absurd strictures of the previous mayor (like, he was able to heat up food, as long as it hadn't been prepared there, or something equally dotty) following his - doubtless politically inspired - "hygiene raid" (and Jean Luc was a Michelin starred chef!).

Didn't even go into the church last time. There was a film crew in there every day (not "Bloodline"); cables everywhere, people running around with clipboards, etc. And I haven't been in the cemetery since 2004, as it always seems to be locked now.

Incidentally, Roscoe, you may have missed this, as you've been travelling, but there was a news item on Arcadia a week or so back, and a mini-thread on the Forum, about plans by the new regime in the village to raise money for restoration work, so there is at least now an intention to address the various issues of delapidation.

I rechecked the angle between the Chair and Grotto. I used the actual St. Baume grotto, latitude 43°19'33.86"N and longitude 5°45'47.19"E, and for the Chair location I used the second leftward pointing kink in the road going South from RLB, being latitude 42°54'44.30"N and longitude 2°19'1.08"E. If that's incorrect let me know. I found the angle of a line between them to be 10.5 degrees N of E.

As long as it's not 'Scots go home' ! Vive l' Auld Alliance !


As to the state of the church, the half-daft previous mayor planned to whitewash the interior walls, or so it's alleged. Pity instead of pulling the stunt of relocating Sauniere's grave, he could have devoted his energy to GENUINE preservation. The presbytery's closed ? How the hell is the museum to be visited then ? ...dig another tunnel into the place ?
It's a matter of regret the the cemetery's closed as well, as you had a fine view of Cardou from there, amongst other things.