TCP did you write thisSorry, no. Dagobert was a pre-congregation saint, canonized locally by a bishop and never accepted universally by the Church.
That confused me
TCP that is fascinating that the POPE removed Dagobert's Saint status
Who on earth told you that?
Dagobert II was never canonized universally
by the Catholic Church, he was and still is considered a "pre-congregation" local
saint and ergo there's nothing for a Pope to remove.
I'm just wondering why Blanche of Castile used the name Dagobert for the middle name of one of her sons if he lost favor with the Vatican perhaps Dagobert had not lost favor in the eyes of the Angevins and Capetians
I think you're making up details to fit your personal narrative, Lov. When/how did Dagobert "lose favor" with the Vatican?
I'm just going by what your saying
Is Saint Dagobert ....a Saint?
You look like you had a problem with me calling him a Saint ...
but I see now your problem was that he was not canonized by Rome but canonized by the local Bishop
So he was NOT a Vatican canonized Saint
but he is A Saint would you say APPROVED by the Vatican
or do they have nothing to do with his Saint status?
You just pointing out excellently that the Vatican didn't make him a Saint by canonization ...they approved of his preCongregation status ...allowing Saint status to continue even though not officially canonized by the Vatican
did I get that right?
I would say it makes sense that the Vatican would not formally canonize him .....because the Vatican had a history of not supporting the Merovingian kings but the Mayor of the Palace ....who had reputations of killing the Merovingain kings ....as demonstrated in Dagobert's murder...and thus martydom
which makes sense because the Vatican tended to ally itself to the Powerful Mayors of the Palace such as Pope Zachary and Pepin did against the last Merovingian king who was Tonsured
Would you say TCP that over time the Vatican support the Merovingian dynasty or plotted against them ?
Food for thought?
It seemed the Local Bishops supported them but Rome ....what about Rome...did they name them Saints and canonize them
At the cloister of Stenay afterwards there grew a cult of Dagobert, venerated as early as 1068 as "Saint Dagobert". The cult spread from there into Lotharingia and Alsace, and Saint Dagobert is recognized by the Roman Catholic Church, like his father and many royal Merovingians.http://saints.sqpn.com/saint-dagobert-ii/
Ok so he is a Saint ...a Pre=Congregation Saint
He is a Saint named by the local Bishop and Locals .....He isn't a canonized Vatican Saint
Here he is Catholic Onlinehttp://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=2809 December 23
650 - 679
Martyred king of Austrasia. The son of King Sigebert II , Dagobert took the throne as a child and was forced into exile. Bishop Dido of Poitiers, France, took him to Ireland when Childebert was named king. Dagobert regained his throne in 675 , but he was murdered only four years later. Ebroin, the mayor of the palace, slew him on December 23 while on a hunting trip. Dagobert was a friend of St. Wilfrid.
In the Catholic Online ...Dagobert is a MARTYR
It is the Mayor of the palace that slays him ....the Mayor of the Palace Pepin and Pope Zachary .... worked together to put an end to the Merovingian kingship
It is interesting that Dagobert goes to Ireland ...home of the Celtic Christian Church....and not hidden in RomeHe is also accounted a saint by the Roman Catholic Church; his feast day is 23 December
I just wanted to make it clear
I think the gray area raised by you ...is that he is not an Official saint because he was not canonized by the Vatican
but he is considered a Saint in the Roman Catholic Church ...on Catholic Online
A Dagobert II roi et a Sion est tresor et il est la mort’,
The Vatican named him a Saint and he was a King
just like Saint Louis ...a King and a Saint
Sorry, no. Dagobert was a pre-congregation saint, canonized locally by a bishop and never accepted universally by the Church.
From The Catholic Encyclopedia:
For several centuries the bishops, in some places only the primates and patriarchs could grant to martyrs and confessors public ecclesiastical honour; such honour, however, was always decreed only for the local territory over which the grantors held jurisdiction. Still, it was only the Bishop of Rome‘s acceptance of the cultus that made it universal, since he alone could permit or command in the Universal Church.
Towards the close of the eleventh century the popes found it necessary to restrict episcopal authority on this point, and decreed that the virtues and miracles of persons proposed for public veneration should be examined in councils, more particularly in general councils. Pope Urban VII published, in 1634, a Bull which put an end to all discussion by reserving to the Holy See exclusively not only its immemorial right of canonization, but also that of beatification.
He is also accounted a saint by the Roman Catholic Church; his feast day is 23 December
Your point was excellent
The Vatican did not malke him a Saint
I was wrong to say they MADE him a Saint ....the question Is Dagobert a Saint ....recognized by Rome?
It is hard to make a Merovingian a canonized Saint by Rome
when history shows us ...they imprisoned them and tonsured one of them as Pope Zachary did
and one wonders if they particpated in Dagoberts demise?...they have a history of supporting the most powerful palace mayors