so...what do we have

roscoe · **Joined:** 02 Dec 2006 3:44 pm **Posts:** 6959

Sheila wrote:

i don't hate anyone....and who is it i'm accused of ignoring...?

You seem to forget the things you have said in the past. You said you have no time for Plantard or de Cherisey yet these are the very people who gave you the reference to the painting you are now discussing.

Without these two we would not be discussing Les Bergere d'Arcadie on this Rennes le Chateau forum.

wayward · **Posted:** 29 Jun 2012 1:59 pm

roscoe wrote:

You seem to forget the things you have said in the past. You said you have no time for Plantard or de Cherisey yet these are the very people who gave you the reference to the painting you are now discussing.

Without these two we would not be discussing Les Bergere d'Arcadie on this Rennes le Chateau forum.

I was wondering when somebody was going to mention that!

hans peper · **Posted:** 29 Jun 2012 5:16 pm

jlockest wrote:

'...... How does the patron then ensure that the right person gets the right message and the wrong person gets the wrong message or no message at all.....'

and you replied that that was the job of the genius painter.

I read that to mean that the genius painter had a way of 'mentally tuning into' the 'correct' target audience while tuning out the wrong audience.

That's right. Please notice, its difficult to discuss such specific things, when my english is poor. Misunderstanding is programmed. But I try.

First off all, the painter construct several levels.

In the first level is a code, which is very easy to read. When a person is out to find gold, the painter leads him into a trap. A lot of gold will be promised, and the person is only looking for that and no other things. So that person tunes herself out. The person is blinded by the greed for gold. She will get the wrong conclusions.

The second level is for persons , who knows a bit about reading hidden informations. If the person is not the "right" one, she will not read the correct message. When the message i.e. say : "go to the right choruspilar and break a hole in it in 2m altitude" and the person do not know all of the rules, she i.e. did not read, that there is a special sign for changing right into left, and a collapse of that pilar will be the result, and he will never get one more chance to try another pilar.

A sign for changing left into right is i.e. the crossed legs of the white shepperd, and there is a confession from the sandal of the blue shepperd, which is on the wrong foot.

The point is, that only the right audience will get the right conclusions. The wrong ones kick theirself out of the game. Thats it, and it's the work of the painter to make a good code, which works like I explained.

But be shure, that the code is not so complicated as Schellenberger did. The code must be able to read without drawing any lines, pentagrammes, stars etc.
you must read it only by whatching the painting a short time. Our brain is able to see alighnments without drawing several lines.

The "trick" with the elbows of the red and blue shepperd could be seen, only with your eyes. That was the reason, why I was upset because of roscoes "fake". I saw the elbows and I saw, that the point is the rock. But I had no idea which rock it is.

But if you, Jlockest, await an magic symbol in the painting, which tunes the wrong audience out, are you on the trail of that persons, who are looking for gold.

hans peper · **Posted:** 29 Jun 2012 7:25 pm

Well,

I am thinking about the crossed legs, (changing right to left, mirror) and the sandal (mirror) and the elbows.

If the elbows are the key ( listen roscoe) , what about the knees ? They are the same as elbows are.

Now I get the intention, that the position of the legs from the red and the blue are symetric. What if I change the position of the blue and the red one ? Then the colors are according better than before : left side = white /red and right side = blue /yellow.

So I try to work with my poor " microsoft picture it" and change the red and the blue guy.
I take the knees as a fixpoint and - !

A new painting is generated, which gives more sence than the old one.

Now the woman put her hand on the shoulder of "Hercules" . They are the twins from the old ARCADIA. They are NOT dead.

"Hercules" is blessing the red shepherd, who is now pointing at the word "EGO" and the shadow gives a sign which can mean "EGO". And now its the shadow of the red one.

The white one and the red one : two riders on one horse - red and white.

The staffs are crossing now on the ground where the water was flowing in ancient times.

The message could be : Our Ego (red/white) is the same as in the anchient Arcadia. We are following the old religion. ARCADIA is not dead .
..

Attachment:

EGO.jpg

hans peper · **Posted:** 29 Jun 2012 8:44 pm

And this is the intention I have got.

This is the painters level. Here you get knowledge about what to do (mirror blue to red). And how to do (4 knees and 4 elbows are visible).

And the message is : We (white and red) are blessed by Arcadia. We are Arcadia. Arcadia is not dead.

Sorry sheila, I stop now.

I call the level which I have discoverd : "..knees,elbows and mirrors"

..

Attachment:

ego lines.jpg

roscoe · **Joined:** 02 Dec 2006 3:44 pm **Posts:** 6959

hans peper wrote:

Sheila wrote:

...The dude in red is not looking out of the picture at us...he is staring wide-eyed, startled out of his reverie by the apparition behind him...the other two haven't noticed her.

Yes sheila, I haven't notice it in the heat of the moment.

The Red HAIRED Shepherd is ARCTURUS in the constellation Bootes. He looks around at his mother CALLISTO (the daughter of Lycaon, king of ARCADIA whom ZEUS turned into a bear and threw into the sky to become URSA MAJOR.

Hesiod had told it:

Quote:

...but afterwards, when she was already with child, was seen bathing and so discovered. Upon this, the goddess was enraged and changed her into a beast. Thus she became a bear and gave birth to a son called ARCAS.

The name ARCTURUS literally means BEAR WATCHER. They observe a tomb that was reproduced close to a place whose Occitan name is ARCAS and close to the Paris Meridian.

Quote:

ARCTURUS (Alpha Bootis). Among the very brightest of stars, shining with a soft orange light, Arcturus lights northern spring skies. It is one of three luminaries that partition the northern sky into very rough thirds, the others being summer's Vega and winter's Capella. Of the three, Arcturus, the Alpha star of the constellation Bootes, the Herdsman, is slightly the brighter, making it the brightest star of the northern hemisphere and the fourth brightest star of the entire sky, following only Sirius, Canopus, and Alpha Centauri. Arcturus, the "Bear Watcher," follows Ursa Major, the Great Bear, around the pole, "arktos" being the Greek name for "bear," from which our word "arctic" is derived by reference with the constellation of the Greater Bear. Arcturus is located at a distance of 37 light years, and became famous when its light was used to open the 1933 world's fair in Chicago, as that light had left the star at about the time of the previous Chicago fair in 1893. It is a classic orange class K (K1) giant star with a precisely defined surface temperature of 4290 degrees Kelvin. To the eye, it shines 113 times more brightly than our Sun. Its lower temperature, however, causes it to radiate considerable energy in the infrared. When this infrared radiation is taken into account, Arcturus actually shines almost twice as brightly, releasing 215 times more radiation than our Sun, from which we find a diameter 26 times solar, about a quarter the size of Mercury's orbit. Arcturus is close and large enough so that its angular diameter of 0.0210 seconds of arc can easily be measured, leading to a very similar direct determination of 25 times the solar dimension and providing nice confirmation of stellar parameters. Arcturus has a velocity relative to the Sun that is higher than other bright stars. Compared with the set of surrounding stars, which orbit the Galaxy on more or less circular orbits, it falls behind by about 100 kilometers per second (as do several others of the "Arcturus Group"). The lagging movement has long suggested that the star comes from an older population of the Galaxy. Consistently, it is somewhat deficient in metals, having only about 20 percent as much iron relative to hydrogen as found in the Sun. A more intriguing suggestion is that the star actually comes to us from a small galaxy that merged with ours some 5 to 8 billion years ago. As a giant, weighing in at around 1.5 times the mass of the Sun, it has ceased the fusion of hydrogen in its core. Though it is somewhat brighter than we would expect for a stable helium fusing star, helium fusion to carbon has probably already begun. Such stars are not expected to have magnetic activity like the Sun, but very weak X-ray emission suggests that Arcturus indeed is magnetically active and has a hard-to-observe "buried corona."

Notice that the Red Shepherd has a crown on his head. He has his foot on Mons Maenalus, a mountain in ARCADIA.

Arcturus points at SPICA the star used to mark the Meridian.

The Dagobert parchment has the word SPICA right at the centre of the irregular pentacle.

The weeping Virgin holding a SPIKE of Wheat (l'Epi) in her hand
WEEPING OVER A BROKEN PILLAR
NOTRE DAME DES CROSS
Drawing by Jeremy Ladd CROSS.
33° Scottish Rite Freemason.

Quote:

De celle que je désirais libérer, montaient vers moi les ef-
fluves du parfum qui imprégnèrent le sépulchre. Jadis les uns l'avaient
nommée : ISIS, reine des sources bienfaisantes, VENEZ A MOI VOUS TOUS
QUI SOUFFREZ ET QUI ETES ACCABLES ET JE VOUS SOULAGERAI, d'autres :
MADELAINE, au célèbre vase plein d'un baume guérisseur. Les initiés
savent son nom véritable : NOTRE DAME DES CROSS.

Notice that the word CROSS is in English.

Quote:

[7 Leo]
I am aware of the scent of the perfume which impregnates the sepulchre of the one I must release. Long ago her name was ISIS, Queen of the benevolent springs, COME TO ME ALL YOU WHO LABOUR AND ARE HEAVY LADEN AND I WILL GIVE YOU REST. Others knew her as MAGDALENE with the celebrated vase full of healing balm. The initiates know her to be NOTRE DAME DES CROSS.

Remember that Sauniere found his parchments in a BROKEN PILLAR.
Or so we've been told.

The broken pillar is from SOLOMON's Temple.

BROKEN PILLAR
In the background a walled city. - Sion or La Cité Sainte as in Beinfaisants de la Cité Sainte.
http://www.gnostique.net/initiation/RER.htm
C.B.C.S. The mother Lodge of France which is comprised of PRIORIES. i.e. A Priory of la Cité Sainte - A Priory of Sion.

SOL OM ON - Three names for the Sun. SOLOMON's Temple is the Temple of the Sun.

And remember that the Order of the Solar Temple (OTS) once tried to buy the VIlla Bethania.

Quote:

After this reformation, Willermoz decided that it would be right to expand this revision into the bosom of the Mother branch of the German Strict Observance. It was with this initiative in mind, that he went to the Convent of Wilhemsbad in 1782. He found supporters of his plan in the Princes Ferdinand of Brunswick and Charles of Hesse, but found stiff opposition on the part of the Illuminati of Bavaria (founded by Adam Weishaupt) and met hostility in the character of Francois de Chefdebien de Saint-Amand, representative of the Order of the Pilalethes, as well as resistance from Savalette de Lange. After heated arguments, Willermoz and his supporters won the day, and succeeded in having the title of C.B.C.S. adopted by all members of the Inner Order.

Read more:

http://www.societe-perillos.com/fm_rlc.html

http://www.gnostique.net/initiation/RER.htm

roscoe · **Joined:** 02 Dec 2006 3:44 pm **Posts:** 6959

Quote:

LE ZODIAQUE DE RENNES

"“Douze palais étaient enfermés dans une seule en-ceinte”, avec l’allusion (en se rapportant à Pline) que ces monuments étaient dédiés au Soleil, telle est la désigna-tion du zodiaque faite à la page 84. La page 246 determine le centre de ce zodiaque et la page 241 donne les dimensions pour tracer sur la carte ces deux circonfé-rences: 15 et 16 centimètres de rayon. Le genial auteur ne manque pas d’ajouter que “cette meule devait moudre le blé (I’or) d’une manière parfaite”.

Le signe du Belier est désigné par Abel, gardien des troupeaux donneurs de lame, c’est-à-dire de l’N, symbole du Nord pour tous et que l’on retrouve deux fois dans le mot RENNES du titre de la carte. Page 43, l’auteur insiste sur la distinction de Ia chaîne avec la trame (trame de lame, trame de l’N) car Ia chaîne correspond aux lignes verticales ↑↓, tracées à partir des lettres N de Ia carte alors que la trame signifie la ligne inverse.

Une information très subtilement dispensée aux pages 227 et 231 permet de situer le signe du Bélier (Abel) vers le confluent de Ia Sals et du Rialsès, exactement au Roc-Nègre, l’Ariès de Nègre ou Bélier Noir, selon l’inscription gravée sur une pierre tombale!

Avant d’aller plus avant, résumons ce qui précède et dissipons les malentendus qui peuvent s’être glissés dans l’esprit du lecteur:

1) Par codage astronomique, l’abbé Boudet indique douze dépôts et leur position correspond pour chacun à un palais du Zodiaque, celui-ci débutant vers Blanchefort, à 0º du Bélier sur Roc-Nègre.
2) Par codage cartographique, une erreur determine au confluent Blanque-Sals la mine de Jais du Serbaïrou.
3) Par codage du tarot, l’éclair par du Cap de l’Homme pour se terminer au Cardou.

Ce codage est parfait. Rennes-les-Bains, avec une circonférence (p. 225) de 16 à 18 km, fait figure d’une banque ayant douze coffres qui s’ouvrent chacun avec un numéro particulier. Ceci n’implique d’ailleurs pas que certains coffres détiennent encore un dépôt.

Le croquis qui accompagne mon texte indique le codage des pierres tombales qui existaient au cimetière de Rennes-le-Chàteau avant Ia publication du livre Boudet et qui donnaient des indications similaires. La pierre horizontale mentionnait les douze caches par l’inter-médiaire des 14 lettres de notre devise latine transcrite en lettres grecques: ET IN ARCADIA EGO. La pierre verticale marquait le lieu exact où l’UNE des douze caches se trouve. Le code était: M.D.SEPT = 1507. L’unité de mesure utilsée était le M, Ie mille, d’une valeur de 1852 mètres. L’abbé Boudet declare page 84: 1500 appartements dans le labyrinthe aux multiples détours, construit par Mesraïm, dédiés au Soleil. Le lecteur désormais habitué aux jeux de mots de l’abbé Boudet a sans doute déjà déduit: M... puis:1500... et 7 (chiffre du soleil), soit le code: 1507. Curieusement, on peut lire sur cette dalle: D’ARLES DAME... “Dame d’Arles” fait penser alors à Ia denomination donnée par Maurice Magre pour designer les arènes de cette ville: Qui parle d’arènes sous-entend Ie jeu du Taureau, dérivé de l’ancien culte du boeuf Apis. Or Apis,c’est aussi l’abeille dont le bourdonnement serait détesté, comme l’afflrme l’abbé Boudet page 122 à propos du lever et du coucher du SOLEIL.

L’abbé Boudet a pu donner dans l’astronomie, la mythologie, la Bible et d’autres méthodes plus ou moins admises, exactement comme il traitait du "Cromleck de Rennes-les-Bains" qui demeure conjectural. Il a pu nous induire en erreur. Mais le lecteur éclairé comprend maintenant qu’une certaine imagerie ne doit être retenue que comme élément dans Ia construction de son oeuvre."

The Zodiac of Rennes by

PIERRE PLANTARD

He who brought our attention to The Shepherds of Arcadia.

Quote:

THE ZODIAC OF RENNES

"" Twelve Palace were locked in a single in-girt", with the reference (pertaining to Pliny) that these monuments were dedicated to the Sun, this is the appointed-tion of the Zodiac to page 84" Page 246 determined the center of the Zodiac and page 241 gives dimensions to plot on the map these two references circonfe: 15 and 16 cm in RADIUS. The genial author did not fail to add that "this wheel was to grind the wheat (I' gold) in a perfect manner".

The sign of the RAM is designated by Abel, guardian of the donor herds of blade, i.e. N, symbol of the North for all and found twice in the word RENNES in the title of the map. Page 43, the author emphasizes the distinction of AI string with the frame (frame blade, the N frame) because AI string corresponds to the vertical lines ↑↓drawn from letters Ia N card while the frame means the opposite line.

Tre informationsubtly delivered at pages 227 and 231 s allows to place the sign of Aries (Abel) to the junction of Ia Sals and Rialses exactly to Roc-Nègre, the negro Aries or Aries black, according to the inscription engraved on a tombstone!

Before going to more forward, summarize the foregoing and diffuse misunderstandings that can be dragged in the mind of the reader:

(1) By astronomical coding, the Abbot Boudet indicates 12 deposits and their position is for each to a Palace of the Zodiac, the beginner to Blanchefort, 0º of Aries on Roc-Nègre.
(2) By map coding, error determined at the confluence Blanque-Sals mine of Jet of Serbairou.
(3) By the tarot, the Flash coding by Cape of human ends at the Cardou.

This coding is perfect. Rennes-les-Bains, with a circumference (at p. 225) from 16 to 18 km, fact is a bank with twelve boxes that open each with a specific number. Moreover, this does not imply that some chests still hold a deposit.

The sketches that accompany my text indicates encoding of tombstones that existed at Rennes-le-Château cemetery before Ia book Boudet and gave similar indications. Horizontal stone mentioned twelve caches by the inter through to the 14 letters of our Latin motto transcribed into Greek letters: and IN ARCADIA EGO. Vertical stone marked the exact location where one of the twelve caches. The code was: M.D.SEPT = 1507. The unit of measure used was the M, catch thousand worth of 1852 metres. The Abbot Boudet declare page 84: 1500 apartments through the maze to the multiple detours, built by Mesraim, dedicated to the Sun. The reader now accustomed to the Abbot Boudet word games has no doubt already inferred: M... then: 1500... and 7 (figure of the Sun), is the code: 1507. Curiously, one can read on this slab: of ARLES Lady... "Lady of Arles" is then Ia given by Maurice Magre for designer name arenas of this city: who speaks of arenes implies catch game of the bull, derived from the ancient cult of beef Apis. Or Apis, it is also the bee with the buzz would be hated the Abbot Boudet page 122 on the sunrise and the sunset as the afflrme.

The Abbot Boudet was able to give in astronomy, mythology, the Bible and other more or less accepted methods, exactly as he dealt with the "Cromleck de Rennes – the – bath" which remains speculative. He was able to deceive us. "But the informed reader understands now that a certain imaging should be retained as element in Ia construction of his work."

The preface to the reprint of the book by Henry Boudet
La Vraie Langue Celtique et le Cromleck de Rennes les Bains.

Reject this and you also must reject the painting

roscoe · **Joined:** 02 Dec 2006 3:44 pm **Posts:** 6959

Deodat Roché (The "Cathar Pope" living in Arques) and Lucienne Julien, secretary general of the 'Societe du Souvenir et des Etudes Cathares' and friend of Daniel Bettox

More legends involving the BULGAR ROCK

http://shadowtheatre13.com/sevenseals.html

fmh999 · **Posted:** 30 Jun 2012 7:15 am

The preface to the reprint of the book by Henry Boudet
La Vraie Langue Celtique et le Cromleck de Rennes les Bains.

What a perfect example to show how "links" get fabricated.

Do we want to "link" another painter to RLC? We could make a competition by looking who is able to construct the most "real" one.

We have so many direct and real links available..why do people always jump on the fabricated ones? More easy I guess..

roscoe · **Joined:** 02 Dec 2006 3:44 pm **Posts:** 6959

fmh999 wrote:

The preface to the reprint of the book by Henry Boudet
La Vraie Langue Celtique et le Cromleck de Rennes les Bains.

What a perfect example to show how "links" get fabricated.

Do we want to "link" another painter to RLC? We could make a competition by looking who is able to construct the most "real" one.

We have so many direct and real links available..why do people always jump on the fabricated ones? More easy I guess..

But we are ONLY talking about Les Bergere d'Arcadie as a direct result of what the author of Zodiac de Rennes has said previously.

Like I said

If you reject what Plantard said in Zodiac de Rennes then you must also reject Poussin's The Shepherds of Arcadia. Both came from the same source with regard to their link to Rennes le Chateau.

Whoop · **Joined:** 06 Jun 2012 3:54 pm **Posts:** 380

I know I have followed a similar argument in the forum before, yet I consider it unfinished business, because I still do not know what it means, but it might spark something in you and there are some new people who may not have seen it before. Forgive me, but at least the drawings are new versions.

Furthermore, I have now seen so many crazy figures, rotations and reflections and all kind of crazy shapes, that it seems to me we should reign it back to what the picture actually shows us. so... what do we have?

With regard to the Bérgeres picture, we are indebted to Prof Cornfield for pointing out that it is highly likely that the picture is based on pentagonal proportions.

Lincoln's book shows a line drawing of it, but he does not show us it in relation to the actual unframed picture. We should remember that the picture has been re-stretched and re-framed a couple of times in its history, so it may have moved slightly in shape over the years. It won't have moved that much, or the paint would have cracked and flaked badly. In other words, if its relationship to its stretcher has changed significantly over the years then all bets are off and I am making this all up.

If we look at Cornford's diagram in relation to the unframed picture we can see he has taken an arbitrary crop - this may have been because that was the framed visible portion on the photograph he traced over.

So what I thought was more sensible was to take the limits of the picture - excluding the deliberately painted-out dark band at the top which we are clearly meant to disregard as part of the composition.

We can see that the dotted line diagonal is indeed based very closely on pentagonal proportions. This much should be obvious to anyone.

Moving on to the next step, it does not take any imaginative leap to see that the centre of the pentagram is the lady's eye. It's a fact. Why this should be I don't know, but I am sure some of you will tell me.

My next step was to observe that a line dropped to the left side through the inner pentagon goes directly through the middle of the tomb, where red man is pointing. There is a prominent line in the picture in the stone courses.

A line dropped to the other side appears to be defined by both the tree and the drapes of the lady's yellow outfit.

Both the lady and her chum on whose shoulder she is resting are defined pretty much in their own vertical slots, so why not extend that idea with equal spaces to define the other two characters in our drama?

I then started to mess with the staff angles. The only one that seemed to be a nice round number of degrees is the kneeling man's. His staff is at 20º. A nice round geometrical number.

Using this 20º angle and our construction lines, it is possible to complete an 18 sided regular figure, whose size and outer limits are defined by the outer two lines and whose centre is firmly placed where the red man's finger is pointing while he faces us. It's almost an open invitation of some kind to explore from this centre.

With regard to the above picture, I observe that it is possible to travel along the 18 sided star, from point to point like 'string art', from the first point indicated at the bottom, to the last point 18 behind the lady's head. You can trace this with your finger without taking it off the picture, touching each point only once.

And here my research ends. All I know is the picture tells me it is there, but the reason why it should be so escapes me.

Sheila · **Posted:** 30 Jun 2012 11:24 am

Composition of art canvases aside....the painting in question is called "La félicité sujette à la mort".....this alone should raise questions by any serious researcher.

Fausta Felicitas is an ancient Roman Goddess of Good Fortune and Lucky Happenstance. Her name is essentially two words of the same meaning, likely doubled up for emphasis, for fausta in the Latin is the adjective "favorable" or "auspicious", while felicitas is the noun meaning "luck", "good fortune" or "happiness"; Her name can be translated as the nicely redundant "Lucky Luck", though "She of Auspicious Good Fortune" probably sounds better.

Fausta Felicitas was also known simply as Felicitas...or in the french language, Félicité. La Félicité (en latin Felicitas)

Festivals of Felicitas were held on the 17th of January and on the 9th of October....and she was shown on coins of the Empire in a variety of poses, usually holding the caduceus, or herald's staff... She wears a diadem... Félicité porte un diadème

.....Diademed head of Felicitas FELICIT[atis].

could this be the same woman who is the focal-point arrière-plan in Poussin's self-portrait?

when one has Felicity on one's side, one has everything and one need no longer fear anything.

The older Greek tradition of Félicité is Eutychia or Eudaimonia which implies a positive and divine state of being... that man is able to strive toward and possibly reach. A literal view of eudaimonia means achieving a state of being similar to benevolent deity, or being protected and looked after by a benevolent deity... Eudaemons, the good daemons, were understood as guardian spirits, bestowing protection and guidance to ones they watched over.

hans peper · **Posted:** 30 Jun 2012 12:23 pm

Very good construct, sheila.

fmh999 · **Posted:** 30 Jun 2012 12:30 pm

roscoe wrote:

fmh999 wrote:

The preface to the reprint of the book by Henry Boudet
La Vraie Langue Celtique et le Cromleck de Rennes les Bains.

What a perfect example to show how "links" get fabricated.

Do we want to "link" another painter to RLC? We could make a competition by looking who is able to construct the most "real" one.

We have so many direct and real links available..why do people always jump on the fabricated ones? More easy I guess..

But we are ONLY talking about Les Bergere d'Arcadie as a direct result of what the author of Zodiac de Rennes has said previously.

Like I said

If you reject what Plantard said in Zodiac de Rennes then you must also reject Poussin's The Shepherds of Arcadia. Both came from the same source with regard to their link to Rennes le Chateau.

Agree with you.

lovuian · **Posted:** 30 Jun 2012 3:36 pm

fmh999 wrote:

roscoe wrote:

fmh999 wrote:

The preface to the reprint of the book by Henry Boudet
La Vraie Langue Celtique et le Cromleck de Rennes les Bains.

What a perfect example to show how "links" get fabricated.

Do we want to "link" another painter to RLC? We could make a competition by looking who is able to construct the most "real" one.

We have so many direct and real links available..why do people always jump on the fabricated ones? More easy I guess..

But we are ONLY talking about Les Bergere d'Arcadie as a direct result of what the author of Zodiac de Rennes has said previously.

Like I said

If you reject what Plantard said in Zodiac de Rennes then you must also reject Poussin's The Shepherds of Arcadia. Both came from the same source with regard to their link to Rennes le Chateau.

Agree with you.

Agree

Plantard is part of this like it or not

lovuian · **Posted:** 30 Jun 2012 4:39 pm

Plantard included Poussin for a reason
You see his portrait and the goddess in the background
The goddess with the all seeing eye or third eye
tells us that Poussin understands the idea of the third eye
the seat of the soul
the eye is in just the right place
the Pineal gland
DMT
This Poussin Lamentation of Christ

this picture to me demonstrates the Magic of Art

what catches my eye is the two curly red heads
Depending on where the viewer is coming from these red heads can be many things
the magic of art

one red head is definitely a boy ....when first looked at he looks like a cherub ....but when closer looked at he is not
he has no wings

the other red head has wings ...but we don't know if the cherub is female or male ...most cherubs are androgenous

what is a red head curly haired child doing there ?

He must be a child of the women who are lamenting over Christ
but who of the people in the picture have beautiful curly hair

a heavenly little cherub and the Christ with his dark curly hair
there is a woman with red hair and that is the lady standing closest to the red hair curly headed boy

If your a Catholic looking at the picture you only see two little cherubs crying but perhaps Poussin thought someday
someone is going to see the little curly red headed boy standing their weeping

Red hair, also called ginger hair occurs naturally on approximately 1–2% of the human population

It occurs more frequently (2–6%) in people of northern or western European ancestry, and less frequently in other populations. Red hair appears in people with two copies of a recessive gene on chromosome 16 which causes a mutation in the MC1R protein.

Red hair varies from a deep burgundy through burnt orange to bright copper. It is characterized by high levels of the reddish pigment pheomelanin and relatively low levels of the dark pigment eumelanin. The term redhead (originally redd hede) has been in use since at least 1510
It is associated with fair skin color, lighter eye colors (gray, blue, green, and hazel), freckles, and sensitivity to ultraviolet light

although both Esau and David are described in the Bible as red-haired. In European culture, prior to the 20th century, red hair was often seen as a stereotypically Jewish trait: during the Spanish Inquisition, all those with red hair were identified as Jewish

In Italy, red hair was associated with Italian Jews, and Judas was traditionally depicted as red-haired in Italian and Spanish art

Writers from Shakespeare to Dickens would identify Jewish characters by giving them red hair

The stereotype that red hair is Jewish remains in parts of Eastern Europe and Russia

It is thought that 46% of the population of Ireland carry the recessive gene

what did Henry Lincoln write about a Holy Bloodline
what did Plantard talk about a Holy Bloodline
what does Poussin show us a red haired curly cherub ....with wings
heaven's child charateristics

if you go by the Bible
Jesus had "brothers and sisters", as reported in Mark....there is a Holy Family

Eusebius has also preserved an extract from a work by Hegesippus (c.110-c.180), who wrote five books (now lost except for some quotations by Eusebius) of Commentaries on the Acts of the Church. The extract refers to the period from the reign of Domitian (81-96) to that of Trajan (98-117), includes the statement that two Desposyni brought before Domitian later became leaders of the churches:[17]

There still survived of the kindred of the Lord the grandsons of Judas, who according to the flesh was called his brother. These were informed against, as belonging to the family of David, and Evocatus brought them before Domitian Caesar: for that emperor dreaded the advent of Christ, as Herod had done. So he asked them whether they were of the family of David; and they confessed they were. Next he asked them what property they had, or how much money they possessed. They both replied that they had only 9000 denaria between them, each of them owning half that sum; but even this they said they did not possess in cash, but as the estimated value of some land, consisting of thirty-nine plethra only, out of which they had to pay the dues, and that they supported themselves by their own labour. And then they began to hold out their hands, exhibiting, as proof of their manual labour, the roughness of their skin, and the corns raised on their hands by constant work. Being then asked concerning Christ and His kingdom, what was its nature, and when and where it was to appear, they returned answer that it was not of this world, nor of the earth, but belonging to the sphere of heaven and angels, and would make its appearance at the end of time, when He shall come in glory, and judge living and dead, and render to every one according to the course of his life. Thereupon Domitian passed no condemnation upon them, but treated them with contempt, as too mean for notice, and let them go free. At the same time he issued a command, and put a stop to the persecution against the Church. When they were released they became leaders of the churches, as was natural in the case of those who were at once martyrs and of the kindred of the Lord. And, after the establishment of peace to the Church, their lives were prolonged to the reign of Trajan. Eusebius of Caesarea, Historia Ecclesiae, 3:20

I'm just adding this to exploring where Poussin is coming from and some of his interesting work

Franck R · **Joined:** 18 Dec 2011 9:41 pm **Posts:** 99

lovuian wrote:

This Poussin Lamentation of Christ

this picture to me demonstrates the Magic of Art

what catches my eye is the two curly red heads
Depending on where the viewer is coming from these red heads can be many things
the magic of art

one red head is definitely a boy ....when first looked at he looks like a cherub ....but when closer looked at he is not
he has no wings

the other red head has wings ...but we don't know if the cherub is female or male ...most cherubs are androgenous

what is a red head curly haired child doing there ?

He must be a child of the women who are lamenting over Christ
but who of the people in the picture have beautiful curly hair

a heavenly little cherub and the Christ with his dark curly hair

Just some thoughts. I can't desist seing Castor and Pollux here too. Pollux was devine and Castor mortal, hence one with wings and one without. If the redheaded boys are Castor and Pollux, and the dying Christ is their father (similar hair), the dying Christ is really Zeus, the father of Castor and Pollux, and the message of the painting is quite the opposite of what it seems like; they are lamenting the death of the classic myths and religions caused by Christianity. (But like Jesus, they are now about to rise from the death, be reborn: Renaissance). The pyramids in the background could support this idea.

lovuian · **Posted:** 30 Jun 2012 10:10 pm

Franck R wrote:

lovuian wrote:

This Poussin Lamentation of Christ

this picture to me demonstrates the Magic of Art

what catches my eye is the two curly red heads
Depending on where the viewer is coming from these red heads can be many things
the magic of art

one red head is definitely a boy ....when first looked at he looks like a cherub ....but when closer looked at he is not
he has no wings

the other red head has wings ...but we don't know if the cherub is female or male ...most cherubs are androgenous

what is a red head curly haired child doing there ?

He must be a child of the women who are lamenting over Christ
but who of the people in the picture have beautiful curly hair

a heavenly little cherub and the Christ with his dark curly hair

Just some thoughts. I can't desist seing Castor and Pollux here too. Pollux was devine and Castor mortal, hence one with wings and one without. If the redheaded boys are Castor and Pollux, and the dying Christ is their father (similar hair), the dying Christ is really Zeus, the father of Castor and Pollux, and the message of the painting is quite the opposite of what it seems like; they are lamenting the death of the classic myths and religions caused by Christianity. (But like Jesus, they are now about to rise from the death, be reborn: Renaissance). The pyramids in the background could support this idea.

Frank very good point
and I saw this too
Another idea we talked about on the boards is the idea of TWINS
and You beat me to speaking about the idea of Saint Thomas Didymus (Twin) ....who may have been a Mortal twin brother of Jesus
and that could be there too....We see that TWINS ran in the Holy families genealogies as with Esau and Jacob

your right the Egyptian Pyramids are in the background

lovuian · **Posted:** 30 Jun 2012 10:15 pm

Thomas the Apostle, also called Doubting Thomas or Didymus (meaning "Twin," as does "Thomas" in Aramaic") was one of the Twelve Apostles of Jesus. He is best known for questioning Jesus' resurrection when first told of it, then proclaiming "My Lord and my God" on seeing Jesus in John 20:28. He was perhaps the only Apostle who went outside the Roman Empire to preach the Gospel. He is also believed to have crossed the largest area, which includes the Parthian Empire and India.

The Nag Hammadi copy of the Gospel of Thomas begins: "These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke and Didymos Judas Thomas recorded." Syrian tradition also states that the apostle's full name was Thomas. Some have seen in the Acts of Thomas (written in east Syria in the early 3rd century, or perhaps as early as the first half of the 2nd century) an identification of Saint Thomas with the apostle Judas brother of James, better known in English as Jude. However, the first sentence of the Acts follows the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles in distinguishing the apostle Thomas and the apostle Judas son of James. Few texts identify Thomas' other twin, though in the Book of Thomas the Contender, part of the Nag Hammadi library, it is said to be Jesus himself: "Now, since it has been said that you are my twin and true companion, examine yourself…"[7][8]

Now Frank what is interesting about this is the Nag Hammadi scrolls were found in Egypt ....these were the Gnostic Gospels ...which contained Gospel of Thomas and Gospel of Mary Magdalene

forbidden books hidden away from destruction by the Church

Renne · **Posted:** 30 Jun 2012 11:38 pm

Mt. Cardou.

The staff angle on the left is said to represent Mt. Cardou.

Wombat · **Posted:** 01 Jul 2012 1:13 am

roscoe · **Joined:** 02 Dec 2006 3:44 pm **Posts:** 6959

Sheila wrote:

Composition of art canvases aside....the painting in question is called "La félicité sujette à la mort".....this alone should raise questions by any serious researcher.

Fausta Felicitas is an ancient Roman Goddess of Good Fortune and Lucky Happenstance. Her name is essentially two words of the same meaning, likely doubled up for emphasis, for fausta in the Latin is the adjective "favorable" or "auspicious", while felicitas is the noun meaning "luck", "good fortune" or "happiness"; Her name can be translated as the nicely redundant "Lucky Luck", though "She of Auspicious Good Fortune" probably sounds better.

Fausta Felicitas was also known simply as Felicitas...or in the french language, Félicité. La Félicité (en latin Felicitas)

Festivals of Felicitas were held on the 17th of January and on the 9th of October....and she was shown on coins of the Empire in a variety of poses, usually holding the caduceus, or herald's staff... She wears a diadem... Félicité porte un diadème

.....Diademed head of Felicitas FELICIT[atis].

could this be the same woman who is the focal-point arrière-plan in Poussin's self-portrait?

when one has Felicity on one's side, one has everything and one need no longer fear anything.

The older Greek tradition of Félicité is Eutychia or Eudaimonia which implies a positive and divine state of being... that man is able to strive toward and possibly reach. A literal view of eudaimonia means achieving a state of being similar to benevolent deity, or being protected and looked after by a benevolent deity... Eudaemons, the good daemons, were understood as guardian spirits, bestowing protection and guidance to ones they watched over.

But that's the Arcadian theme.

They come across a tomb which says to them that despite their idyllic lifestyle death is still present. "bliss subject to death"

I too am in Arcadia. "I" being death.

However as Plantard was to point out the phrase ET IN ARCADIA EGO is incomplete, it should have the verb SUM on the end.

IF you look here he places three dots after the phrase ET IN ARCADIA EGO

hans peper · **Posted:** 01 Jul 2012 7:44 am

Why should a genius painter tell us that death is still present ?

Everybody knows that fact in every second of his life.

tingra · **Posted:** 01 Jul 2012 7:51 am

hans peper wrote:

Why should a genius painter tell us that death is still present ?

Everybody knows that fact in every second of his life.

Poussin was pre occupied with death, he suffered from venereal disease most of his adult life, very debilitating illness towards the end.

jlockest · **Joined:** 13 Aug 2010 5:37 pm **Posts:** 990

hans peper wrote:

Why should a genius painter tell us that death is still present ?

Everybody knows that fact in every second of his life.

Are the Shepherds Arcadian themselves, or is the only reference to Arcadia on the tomb? Could it be that the Shepherds aren't Arcadian, and they like most people search for Utopia/Arcadia. They have a fantasy about what it is like. So, the tomb basically says to them, that even in their most idyllic 'material' place, death and decay must exist. All material decays and changes form. So don't focus on the material?

Arcadia Discussion Zone

so...what do we have

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